[Politics] Brexit

mikeyjh said:

The thing is, while we know that the leave campaign cheated and the recent Arron Banks revelations are even more shocking - The real problem is that the eurosceptics have been 'cheating' for decades. As I alluded to elsewhere, for vast swathes of people, Europe and immigrants are to blame for all that is wrong in this country. Fundamentally, that's what won it for the leavers. I only hope that once Article 50 is canned and we have a second referendum, enough people will have seen that we may be better off remaining, after all.

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BigGully said:

On a serious note, how can you not remember something so fundamental as hoping for another referendum so shortly after the first whilst then somehow finding justification today, you didn't really have any original 'justification' then as you don't today it's your way of deluding yourself that you are not anti democratic.

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bashlsdir said:

I think the Jet Engines are nothing to do with BMW, separate company.

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Green Cross Code Man said:

Brexit at any cost? No, war, famine, nuclear annihilation etc no thanks. But I have long held the view that the UK is an outdated idea and that the 4 comprising nations (sorry Trig, England is a country! ) would evolve a more grown up relationship with one-another. Of course, if one is tied to past ideas of empire and glory, then the idea of the UK breaking up would be most unpalatable.

And who said the EU is evil? I certainly didn't and nor do I see it as a question of good and evil. It is a pity that such emotive terms are used as they do nothing to help the discussion.

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Bold Seagull said:

Ha ha I didn't even think to look back on the conversation to see if they were talking jet engines or cars.

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LadySeagull said:

Wow back at you.

No is the answer to your crass questions. Usual crap from a remainer.

Did I say I liked the balls up that the Government and the useless 'opposition' have manged to achieve/?

No, it's a disaster and an embarrassment. Do we agree on that?

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Thunder Bolt said:

We did when the Cold War was ongoing.

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ManOfSussex said:

During the Cold War they'd have been handing out Hero of the Soviet Union medals for anyone involved in contributing to a mess like the one we find ourselves in now. They wouldn't have dreamed this possible.

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attila said:

This unprecedented period of division and chaos in our country is entirely the Tories' doing. No-one else's - it is literally entirely theirs. If you are in any way unconvinced I think it's time for a recap.

Firstly, Cameron decided to foist a referendum on us in the mistaken belief that it would settle the Tories' split on Europe once and for all by showing the 'Eurosceptics' that the majority wanted to stay in the EU. He never dreamed for an instant that the slavering bigots of the tabloid press, dark money and the likes of Cambridge Analytica would prove cleverer and more influential than his countless corporate backers when it came to influencing voters. A ghastly coalition of liars won the referendum in a welter of fake news and appalling xenophobia.

Then May called a snap general election in the mistaken belief (re-enforced, let us remember, by 99% of all known mainstream media) that she would trounce the 'unelectable' Jeremy Corbyn and gain the huge majority to complete Brexit in the way she wanted to. Instead she lost her slim majority and could only cling on to power by bribing the unspeakable 17th century boggle eyed rednecks of the DUP.

(An aside here: if you are going to inveigh against 'terrorist sympathisers' then the DUP are as much in that category as Sinn Fein. Of course, one person's 'terrorist sympathisers' are another woman's route to power in a country with a tame right wing press and cowed BBC. Imagine the utter furore if the situation had been reversed, Labour were the largest party and Corbyn then persuaded Sinn Fein to take their seats to give him a majority....)

And then May made the most appalling and yes, disloyal, unpatriotic decision of all the festering, diarrhoea sodden, burst colostomy bag in a leaking bucket of unspeakably crap decisions she has come up with in the past three years....

Instead of recognising the severity of the situation and reaching out to other parties, she put the interests of the Conservative Party above those of the country and allowed her Brexit strategy to be dictated by the appalling Lord Snooty Rees Mogg and the aforementioned DUP.

And that brings us on to the backstop issue. Let us not forget that the DUP are supposed to be representing a province which voted 63% to stay in the EU. Although a huge obstacle which needed to be high on the agenda in any Brexit negotiations, the Irish border issue had no real traction during what was (surprise, surprise) a thoroughly Anglocentric referendum campaign. So when it came up in Brussels the DUP, holding the balance of power in Parliament, could hold the country to ransom on the backstop issue to appease their ghastly followers with no problem at all - in no way reflecting the views of the vast majority of the people of Northern Ireland.

If May had reached out to other parties during negotiations and sidelined the slavering bigots on the Tory Right the DUP would have turned against her, binning her majority, and the Conservative Party would have split. As a literally lifelong Tory loyalist apparatchik devoid of empathy, humanity or imagination (those being self evidently the qualities required for that role) she was determined to avoid those eventualities at all costs.

Like Cameron who foisted the filthy referendum on us in the first place, she deliberately chose to split the country in two to avoid the Tory Party falling apart. Families and friendships torn asunder and British citizens literally fighting in streets and pubs is preferable to her than the end of the disgusting organisation to which she has dedicated her life.

I hope the Tory Party self-destructs anyway. I think it will. To coin a phrase, Parliament has to take back control now and save us from the abyss. There will be cross party co-operation and Lord Snooty won't like that. Rot in hell, Rees Mogg. Rot in hell.

And the rest of us? Weep, Britain, weep. And if you care about this country, as I most certainly do, remember what the Tories - no one else, just the selfish, self-obsessed, navel gazing Tory Party - have done to us and never, ever, ever vote for them again.

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Thunder Bolt said:

Like they have to the two Soviets who visited Salisbury to see the famous spire? Perhaps not, because they failed in their mission.

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ManOfSussex said:

During the 45 years of The Cold War, The Kremlin could never have envisaged this country ending up in the state it is now doing what it's doing to itself and it's neighbours.

They just need Scottish independence and Faslane closed and the strawberry is well and truly on top of the Pavlova.

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Hastings gull said:

Do you really think that? Do you not think that this assertion might just be that shade exaggerated? If you don't then such extremism is truly worrying.

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ManOfSussex said:

Okay - I'm British, you're English, I understand.

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GT49er said:

Remain isn't specific. It doesn't cover future changes the EU might inflict upon us.

The options would have to be:
a).Remain (with a promise that we'll never join the Euro).
b).Remain (but with guaranteed no greater unification).
c).Remain (without a European army).
d),Remain (but without a & b)
e).Remain (but without a & c)
f).Remain (but without b & c)
g).Remain (but without a,b or c)

That would level the playing field somewhat - but I don't think our shyster parliamentarians would want a level playing field a second time around, would they.

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Thunder Bolt said:

Like they have to the two Soviets who visited Salisbury to see the famous spire? Perhaps not, because they failed in their mission.

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Blue Valkyrie said:

The Extension is now off the table. No point in voting tomorrow on it.

My guess :

*No deal* - 90%
May's Deal (3rd attempt) - 5%
A50 Revocation - 5%



I don't mind for myself - no complaints, there have been plenty of good times. It breaks my heart for my young daughter.

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

Hmmmm....I get what you are saying but what about divorce versus stay married. Why qualify the latter with:

1. Married but with the option to change my mind if the missus shags my best mate
2. Married but with the option to change my mind if I simply get bored and fancy a change
3. Married but with the option to change my mind if I decide I'd like to be a bit gender fluid

Yes, I accept these are all unknowns and all possible but why torture yourself with any of these as opposed to the absurd

4. Let's just get divorced, **** it. Bound to be better than risk who knows what by staying married.

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ManOfSussex said:

During the 45 years of The Cold War, The Kremlin could never have envisaged this country ending up in the state it is now doing what it's doing to itself and it's neighbours.

They just need Scottish independence and Faslane closed and the strawberry is well and truly on top of the Pavlova.

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