[Politics] Brexit

WATFORD zero · Sep 4, 2019

beorhthelm said:
agree and pretty much the same needed for a deal right?

No, because the only deal on offer is, and has always been, tied to the Customs Union (whether in NI, the Irish sea or wrapped up in ribbon and re-branded the backstop :wink:

) . If we were are not in the customs union, then I agree, but there isn't and never has been this 'good deal' where Britain gets any advantages of EU membership without sticking to the EU's rules and regulations and contributing.

A deal with a customs union would be fairly straightforward. We could trade much as we do at the moment, just with no say in how it operates.

pb21 · Sep 4, 2019

Stat Brother said:
Soames represents a 53.1% remain constituency.
Soames voted against a No Deal Brexit.
Soames is a traitor of the electorate and the people he represents.

He also voted for the WA three times.

Bob! · Sep 4, 2019

Simster said:
Well I think we can finally be hopeful of some sanity.

Brexit date pushed back to Jan 31st
General election called
Labour lead a coalition government that renegotiates Brexit sensibly by removing the ridiciculous Tory red lines that made it impossible without damaging the country. So they take us out of the EU thus respecting the referendum result, but keeps us in a customs union thereby securing the GFA.

.........

....and they would also put that deal to the nation in a confirmatory referendum of deal v remain.

....and would campaign for remain.

Simster · Sep 4, 2019

Bob! said:
....and they would also put that deal to the nation in a confirmatory referendum of deal v remain.

....and would campaign for remain.

I'm uncomfortable with that. I am a remainer but a referendum was held and I think it has to be respected.

Bob! · Sep 4, 2019

Simster said:
I'm uncomfortable with that. I am a remainer but a referendum was held and I think it has to be respected.

That is (current) Labour policy.

The best we can hope for, I feel.

Stat Brother · Sep 4, 2019

[tweet]1169014140658159616[/tweet]

pb21 · Sep 4, 2019

Stat Brother said:
Soames represents a 53.1% remain constituency.
Soames voted against a No Deal Brexit.
Soames is a traitor of the electorate and the people he represents.

To be fair to Johnson/Cummings, in other similar countries when you vote against the ruling party you get taken out; Soames should be thankful.

Is it PotG? · Sep 4, 2019

pb21 said:
To be fair to Johnson/Cummings, in other similar countries when you vote against the ruling party you get taken out; Soames should be thankful.

You seem to know what you're talking about. For thickos like me, what happens if the ever helpful Eurobods refuse to extend?

Stat Brother · Sep 4, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
You seem to know what you're talking about. For thickos like me, what happens if the Eurobods refuse to extend?

What and bring his madness to an end, why would they do that?

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Sep 4, 2019

Simster said:
Well I think we can finally be hopeful of some sanity.

Brexit date pushed back to Jan 31st
General election called
Labour lead a coalition government that renegotiates Brexit sensibly by removing the ridiciculous Tory red lines that made it impossible without damaging the country. So they take us out of the EU thus respecting the referendum result, but keeps us in a customs union thereby securing the GFA.

And if the voting system gets changed to something a bit more fit for purpose, then perhaps the billions we've wasted to date might actually have some value. Apart from anything else, perhaps we'd then see both the Tories and Labour split, as neither of them look fit to govern in truth, because certainly in my life time, they both preach "we are a broad church" but they have both shown they absolutely are not - a faction takes control of those parties, bullies everyone else, and it limits the choice of the electorate. It is time for PR - give everyone a voice.

Agree with all of that - as long as Labour changed their leader first.

I could see Starmer or Cooper as potentially leading a coalition, but not Corbyn.

WATFORD zero · Sep 4, 2019

Simster said:
I'm uncomfortable with that. I am a remainer but a referendum was held and I think it has to be respected.

I understand your case for a 'soft' Brexit following on logically from the very tight referendum result, but all 'No deal' leavers are saying that isn't what they voted for and they believe they are in the majority over 'soft Brexit' supporters.

Surely, it's only fair to find out which is the preferred leave option by the democratic majority, rather than assuming which leave we should implement ?

And it can be easily done without splitting the leave vote

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll&highlight=Triggaaar

Is it PotG? · Sep 4, 2019

Stat Brother said:
What and bring his madness to an end, why would they do that?

I must admit, the image of Merkel & Co sitting around a big screen with a pint of Stella p1ssing themselves watching our MPs does make you feel kinda warm inside.

beorhthelm · Sep 4, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
No, because the only deal on offer is, and has always been, tied to the Customs Union (whether in NI, the Irish sea or wrapped up in ribbon and re-branded the backstop ) . If we were are not in the customs union, then I agree, but there isn't and never has been this 'good deal' where Britain gets any advantages of EU membership without sticking to the EU's rules and regulations and contributing.

A deal with a customs union would be fairly straightforward. We could trade much as we do at the moment, just with no say in how it operates.

post WA/customs union of course. if we started within first few months of invoking article 50, given the known 2 year negotiation plus 2 year transition period, solutions would be in place by the end. the end point of brexit was always to come out of the customs union.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 4, 2019

Stat Brother said:
How do you square this circle?

5 Live this morning talking to Welsh farmers.
They were in favour of No Deal Brexit in order to get some closure.
48% tariff on their product meant "well we just won't spend any money for a year or so".

One said:-

'You can't take No Deal off the table as that's part of the negotiation, and will seriously weaken our position'.
'But what would No Deal mean for you?'
'Oh it would be catastrophic'.

I started bleeding out of my eyes.

It’s almost worth no deal for these people.

pb21 · Sep 4, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
You seem to know what you're talking about. For thickos like me, what happens if the ever helpful Eurobods refuse to extend?

If they refuse to extend we have two options the WA or no deal.

Simster · Sep 4, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
I understand your case for a 'soft' Brexit following on logically from the very tight referendum result, but all 'No deal' leavers are saying that isn't what they voted for and they believe they are in the majority.

Surely, it's only fair to find out which is the preferred leave option by the democratic majority, rather than assuming which leave we should implement ?

And it can be easily done without splitting the leave vote

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll&highlight=Triggaaar

But they're not in the majority. Ignore the bluster, a referendum was held on whether to take us out. Leave won so we must leave, and they must leave the detail to parliament. If parliament decides (as looks increasingly likely) that the only way to leave without fundamentally damaging the nation is to remain in a customs union, then that is what must happen. If the idiots in the Brexit party don't like it, they can carry on fighting until we saw our legs off. Similarly, if the LibDems don't like it, they can carry on campaining on a policy that seeks to get us back in. But one thing is clear - I think the electoral system has been shown up as unfit for purpose during this debacle.

Is it PotG? · Sep 4, 2019

pb21 said:
If they refuse to extend we have two options the WA or no deal.

So, despite all of the shenanigans last night, it could STILL go to No Deal?

Postman Pat · Sep 4, 2019

pb21 said:
To be fair to Johnson/Cummings, in other similar countries when you vote against the ruling party you get taken out; Soames should be thankful.

Yet JRM voted against the government over 100 times and got made leader of the house. Weird huh.

WATFORD zero · Sep 4, 2019

Simster said:
But they're not in the majority. Ignore the bluster, a referendum was held on whether to take us out. Leave won so we must leave, and they must leave the detail to parliament. If parliament decides (as looks increasingly likely) that the only way to leave without fundamentally damaging the nation is to remain in a customs union, then that is what must happen. If the idiots in the Brexit party don't like it, they can carry on fighting until we saw our legs off. Similarly, if the LibDems don't like it, they can carry on campaining on a policy that seeks to get us back in. But one thing is clear - I think the electoral system has been shown up as unfit for purpose during this debacle.

Certainly agree with that :thumbsup:

WATFORD zero · Sep 4, 2019

beorhthelm said:
post WA/customs union of course. if we started within first few months of invoking article 50, given the known 2 year negotiation plus 2 year transition period, solutions would be in place by the end. the end point of brexit was always to come out of the customs union.

You may well think that. I suggest others may disagree

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