Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
So you're not standing by the comment you made I replied to that was talking specifically about Dunk and March?
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[Albion] Simon Rusk interview - The Guardian
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So you're not standing by the comment you made I replied to that was talking specifically about Dunk and March?
GT49er
Well-known member
Exactly. They were playing, and the youngsters weren't. The suggestion wasn't ever to play the youngsters regardless.
Steve Sidwell covered this point on TS this week, saying PL club managers understandably refrain from playing young players because it’s a huge step up to play elite level football. The PL is a results business, with all points vital to clubs.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I was responding to the post that said it was 'frankly insulting' they didn't play more. I was just pointing out that to play more, those are the players they would have needed to keep out of the team, and that in order to play them, they would need to be exceptional young players. I asked why that was insulting, and should they have been played regardless in that case?
I thought it was a simple enough discussion point?
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I don't think you want me to define chance, but to provide a list a little bit like [MENTION=29779]Whitechapel[/MENTION] has done. I witnessed most of those minutes played by the u23s in the flesh. I think two of those that played in the League Cup (or whatever it's now called) have now been released. Connolly came on in that game too and looked overwhelmed.
Gyokeres has played the most minutes, and did have one good run and IIRC a weak shot but he looked way, way short of PL standard.
You may wish for multiple starts/appearances for our DS squad players, but that's most likely to be accompanied with relegation. @Chailey Jem has this right in that so many people are investing their fantasies in Potter's arrival, that many are going to be disappointed.
I suspect that Potter may well give our DS players more of a 'chance' than Hughton but, ultimately, he'll be given the remit to keep us in the PL, and if they're not up to it -- which the vast majority won't be -- they won't have too much in the way of 'chances'.
Read what Rusk says, because he captures the situation as well as any. He's fully aware that the gulf is so vast, and that his job is as much about preparing them for life, and being honest with them, rather than expecting them to make an appearance in the Cups/PL, let alone make it.
symyjym
Banned
So you're not standing by the comment you made I replied to that was talking specifically about Dunk and March?
I stand by the fact that Dunk and March were tipped to become Premier League players in the future and March certainly has an interest from Southampton before Hughton's arrival. You would also not be wrong by saying they developed under Hughton. Not sure why you feel I have to be wrong and yourself right on this as it's not important.
Both comments are not mutually exclusive however as I asked regarding my actual point in the original comment; Why only give 15 seconds to a player and what would be psychology and purpose behind it? It is not an unreasonable or a trick question.
B-right-on
Living the dream
But this wont just be us. You'll find its the rule in the PL with the odd 'Dunk and March' breakting through. Look at Arsenal V Chelsea Europa final. How many Brits were on the field of play?
Good point. Trent was tipped for stardom when very young, it was obvious to the senior players.
Perhaps our aren’t good enough for PL matches? It’s elite level against many of the best players in the game.
pishhead
Well-known member
I really hope we see some of our 23s blooded into the squad next season. The ones I am most optimistic about are Ostigard, Sanders, Molumby, Gyokeres and Connolly. Gyokeres in particular is interesting as I'm sure Potter will have been aware of him from Sweden.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
When [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] has to resort to using Dunk and March as evidence of Hughton's commitment to youth development, it underlines just how few opportunities CH gave the kids.
Dunk had made 75 - that's 75 - league appearances before Hughton was appointed. March had made 30 league appearances (and it would have been more, but he missed the first 18 matches of the 2014-15 season with a stress fracture of the back).
Come on [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION], you're better than this.
I'd be glad to see some statistics of how previous managers of ours developed youth players. With our cup runs over Hughton's tenure, I'd wager he's given more minutes to youth players than many of his predecessors.
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
Hmmm... we brought a few through... Tommy E... Steve Cook... mainly defenders IIRC... never been good at strikers TBH... then Victor G scores twice for Sweden... Aaron C is PL2 player of season... did Chris give them a go? Well Victor got a little go... Celtic were chasing Aaron, Chris looked on, but no... I could go on (can't I!), but you get my drift...
pishhead
Well-known member
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
When [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] has to resort to using Dunk and March as evidence of Hughton's commitment to youth development, it underlines just how few opportunities CH gave the kids.
Dunk had made 75 - that's 75 - league appearances before Hughton was appointed. March had made 30 league appearances (and it would have been more, but he missed the first 18 matches of the 2014-15 season with a stress fracture of the back).
Come on [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION], you're better than this.
LoL!
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
I give you Foden... for the champions...
GT49er
Well-known member
No, it's a matter of balance. Connolly may have looked overwhelmed in one very short appearance; not surprising. Like everyone else, he needs to get up to speed (and he might not take a whole season to do that, like players from the Eredivise (sp) who've had even longer, and still haven't); no, of course he shouldn't suddenly be brought into the starting eleven week after week, but a few more cameo appearances, gradually longer if he does well, would be in order. Same applies to any other youngster.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Nothing to do with me feeling the need to be right or wrong, you accused me of completely sidetracking your original comment. Had you just said, 'yes they both developed under Hughton', I'd have nothing to add.
I've got no interest in the late substitution or why you think it's relevant really, maybe he just forgot to do it earlier, who knows.
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
Brits? We are talking about U23's, aren't we?
pishhead
Well-known member
There are always exceptions, look at the current England squad, most have followed the same development route. Loans at a lower level then slowly blooded into their respective squads. Then there are players like Foden who are once in a generation players. I genuinely believe he has the potential to be one of the best players our Country has ever produced. You only have to see how Pep speaks of him to know what a special talent he is.
Quality points.