[Politics] Brexit

Two Professors said:

You really have no idea if Brexit will hurt the country for decades,you read it on Twitter,or RT,and it suits your point of view.I want us out before the whole project Greater Europe goes belly up,and we can choose to help them with a bail-out,or not,depending on how nicely they ask.I also do not want to condemn the youth of this country to the mass unemployment policies of the EU.The EU helps the university trained kids,and sod all the others,just ask the French,Italian,Spanish and Greek unemployed under 25's.'Cross the road.I'm sure you will find waiters wanted' as Micron told one lad.

Click to expand...

Under freedom of movement the “French,Italian,Spanish and Greek unemployed under 25's” can move freely to the 10 countries which have lower youth unemployment than the U.K. The British can do the same at the moment. Can here, youth unemployment is half what it is in the U.K. and it consists of proper jobs as well.....not poorly paid crappy retail and service roles.

Two Professors said:

You really have no idea if Brexit will hurt the country for decades,you read it on Twitter,or RT,and it suits your point of view.I want us out before the whole project Greater Europe goes belly up,and we can choose to help them with a bail-out,or not,depending on how nicely they ask.I also do not want to condemn the youth of this country to the mass unemployment policies of the EU.The EU helps the university trained kids,and sod all the others,just ask the French,Italian,Spanish and Greek unemployed under 25's.'Cross the road.I'm sure you will find waiters wanted' as Micron told one lad.

Click to expand...

We can help them?? You really are stupid. Thanks again.

Im out of of commenting on this thread. Brexiteers have proven to me lately, that they really are stupid. Im not bothering to talk to stupid people who, for their own emotional reasons, are happy to see the British economy and people suffer.

Herr Tubthumper said:

but you are an old white man

Click to expand...

I am shocked to discover [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] is not only male and old but white as well. Everyone knows this is not a good mix in Bedwetter Britain, especially if you have white guilt.
I am surprised more isnt done at the sign up stage of NSC to weed out these undesirables.
There should be a law on here that you can only talk about a subject if you match the demographic.........tis the way of the snowflake!

Two Professors said:

You really have no idea if Brexit will hurt the country for decades,you read it on Twitter,or RT,and it suits your point of view.I want us out before the whole project Greater Europe goes belly up,and we can choose to help them with a bail-out,or not,depending on how nicely they ask.I also do not want to condemn the youth of this country to the mass unemployment policies of the EU.The EU helps the university trained kids,and sod all the others,just ask the French,Italian,Spanish and Greek unemployed under 25's.'Cross the road.I'm sure you will find waiters wanted' as Micron told one lad.

Click to expand...

Rees Mogg, Liam Fox and the Office for Budget Responsibility seem to think it will be decades, Farage on the other hand, thinks we’ll never be as well off.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politic...ars-when-do-leavers-think-brexit-will-pay-off

pastafarian said:

I am shocked to discover [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] is not only male and old but white as well. Everyone knows this is not a good mix in Bedwetter Britain, especially if you have white guilt.
I am surprised more isnt done at the sign up stage of NSC to weed out these undesirables.
There should be a law on here that you can only talk about a subject if you match the demographic.........tis the way of the snowflake!

Click to expand...

I think you only need some simple self-awareness when it comes to talking like an expert on subjects you know **** all about.

Kinky Gerbils said:

With no deal those things will happen.

There has to be some sort of deal for it not to.

Click to expand...

There will have to be the no deal with transition period, that people love to mock on here.

Unless Parliament can pass a new law to reserve the 29th March leaving date, and I strongly doubt they will able to, then the EU will have to act otherwise it will lead to war.

We have a transition period if we get a deal, so there is no reason why it won't happen if there is no deal, even if the EU have to pass new laws. Its in no ones interest to "flick the switch" on 29th March, when there can be a transiion period.

The EU are on a long term bluff, and we have a weak PM who will not stand up to them. Parliament may force the issue, because if the repeal the 29th March leaving date law, then things will get seriously nasty in this country, and I would not want to be an MP is that happens.

Herr Tubthumper said:

I think you only need some simple self-awareness when it comes to talking like an expert on subjects you know **** all about.

Click to expand...

Self awareness is one thing giving reasons of old, male and white as qualities that dont allow you to discuss a subject is another.........tis the way of the snowflake.

pastafarian said:

Self awareness is one thing giving reasons of old, male and white as qualities that dont allow you to discuss a subject is another.........tis the way of the snowflake.

Click to expand...

This is not what I wrote is it?

Blue3 said:

You may well be correct but the problem with stringing it out is no one can plan I was listening to some sheep farmers bleating on about it

Click to expand...

Fishermen are carping about it, Cattle farmers have a beef, and Chicken farmers are squawking too.

Tubby-McFat-Fuc said:

There will have to be the no deal with transition period, that people love to mock on here.

Unless Parliament can pass a new law to reserve the 29th March leaving date, and I strongly doubt they will able to, then the EU will have to act otherwise it will lead to war.

We have a transition period if we get a deal, so there is no reason why it won't happen if there is no deal, even if the EU have to pass new laws. Its in no ones interest to "flick the switch" on 29th March, when there can be a transiion period.

The EU are on a long term bluff, and we have a weak PM who will not stand up to them. Parliament may force the issue, because if the repeal the 29th March leaving date law, then things will get seriously nasty in this country, and I would not want to be an MP is that happens.

Click to expand...

No deal by definition means no transition. That is kind of the point.

I would suggest civil unrest will be worse with no deal than remain. No deal will see everyone out. Remain will irritate about half. A large proportion of leave voters are old so they won’t be out. If no deal then everyone will be out scrapping as soon as there is a whiff of food shortage.

ManOfSussex said:

It depends on who you listen to and what gallery they''re playing to. The Icelandic Foreign Minister has stated he could see no issue with it for example. The opinion above is of one pro-EU, Norwegian MP though. She isn't The Government of Noway or The EFTA Council and there's nothing to stop The EU offering us the same terms as Norway with a customs union if we asked.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1071759560120123393?s=19[/tweet]

Click to expand...

I think joining EFTA as a stop gap whilst we negotiated something else would not sit well with the existing countries. Joining and saying this is how we intend to go on could be worked. If we were to have the same terms as Norway but were not part of EFTA, we might need a third court, neither EFTA's or ECJ.

Baldseagull said:

Fishermen are carping about it, Cattle farmers have a beef, and Chicken farmers are squawking too.

Click to expand...

Finally I have given up hope

Berty23 said:

No deal by definition means no transition. That is kind of the point.

I would suggest civil unrest will be worse with no deal than remain. No deal will see everyone out. Remain will irritate about half. A large proportion of leave voters are old so they won’t be out. If no deal then everyone will be out scrapping as soon as there is a whiff of food shortage.

Click to expand...

Bloody hell. I think you would be worse than the PM at getting us a good deal.

None of that will happen. The EU need us as much as we need them. In fact they need us more.

No deal will mean we will agree a new final date and work towards it. No pay outs. No terms we don't like, and nothing will change.... to begin with. We will agree things like citizens rights etc as we go, document by documents. If we don't agree on something, it won't happen.

I think we will leave on the 29th. I think we will leave without a deal. We will have a transition period. The EU would be blowing its own brains out if we didn't. Could you image the unrest in Germany is they couldn't exports cars to us. Could you image the French if there wine industry died because they couldn't export to us!!! These countries are on the brink as it is with civil unrest amongst its people. Are the leaders going to allow that to happen. Are they hell! There will be civil unrest over the whole of the EU. The far right will have a field day!

But I think we will barely notice a difference to begin with. If you really think we will be cast adrift by the EU, then I think you are wrong.

They are bluffing. We it becomes obvious to them that we will have to leave without a deal, they will rewrite the laws, in typical EU fashion, and do all the can to make it as easy as transition as possible, because if we get ****ed up, the EU gets ****ed up, and they know that, and are not about to allow that to happen, no matter how big and tough they look at the moment.

Our biggest mistake was trying to negotiate with a bully. We should have played hard ball from day one, and prepared for no deal from day one. They would have come crawling to us little Oliver Twist looking for gruel had we done that. As it is, we have given them the upper hand, because we have a wet fart running the country.

Best thing she can do now, is put it to the vote, let parliament kick it out, and then go full throttle towards no deal........... we may then find the EU trying a little harder to obtain a deal. I am still convinced they think we are going to call it off and stay. We need to prove that won't happen, then and only then, can we get serious with them.

Sorry you lost me at they need us more. We represent about what 10 or 12 % of Eu exports. They represent about half of ours. Yes the amount that of money is greater for them but the proportion of trade is far far greater for us.

Think of it as two individuals.

Person 1 earns 100k a year. They get a 12k pay cut. So they only earn 88k a year

Person 2 earns 20k a year. They get a 10k pay cut. They now earn 10k a year.

In your “they need us more than we need them” scenario you believe the person getting a 12k pay cut will struggle more. Could anyone possibly look at these two examples and think the person who has seen a 12% pay cut and now earning 88k is worse off than someone who has a 50% pay cut now earning 10k?

This is the sort of level in descrepancy between us and the EU.

Haven’t all of the tories given up saying they need us more and that we will be better off? The latest efforts seem more like “we survived the war and think about the sovereignty”

I am staggered that anyone still believe they need us more.

Oh and French wine industry collapsing? We are less than 10% of their exports. In fact we represent about as much in actual sales as their industry grew in 2017. Like people say about the exporters from the U.K. “they will sell elsewhere”


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&s...aw3KUMZiWRju2hP3URFDyPUl&ust=1544829257881651

Baldseagull said:

I think joining EFTA as a stop gap whilst we negotiated something else would not sit well with the existing countries. Joining and saying this is how we intend to go on could be worked. If we were to have the same terms as Norway but were not part of EFTA, we might need a third court, neither EFTA's or ECJ.

Click to expand...

If the red lines weren't there an arrangement on or similar to Norway's terms is perfectly possible with an alternative legal body as arbitrator.

I see Donald Tusk has just said the withdrawal agreement is not open for renegotiation following The EU 27's meeting tonight. That went well for May then today. Quelle surprise.

Text of EU summit conclusions on Brexit
UK withdrawal deal 'not open for renegotiation'

1. The European Council reconfirms its conclusions of 25 November 2018, in which it endorsed the Withdrawal Agreement and approved the Political Declaration. The Union stands by this agreement and intends to proceed with its ratification. It is not open for renegotiation.

2. The European Council reiterates that it wishes to establish as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom in the future. It stands ready to embark on preparations immediately after signature of the Withdrawal Agreement to ensure that negotiations can start as soon as possible after the UK’s withdrawal.

3. The European Council underlines that the backstop is intended as an insurance policy to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland and ensure the integrity of the Single Market. It is the Union’s firm determination to work speedily on a subsequent agreement that establishes by 31 December 2020 alternative arrangements, so that the backstop will not need to be triggered.

4. The European Council also underlines that, if the backstop were nevertheless to be triggered, it would apply temporarily, unless and until it is superseded by a subsequent agreement that ensures that a hard border is avoided. In such a case, the Union would use its best endeavours to negotiate and conclude expeditiously a subsequent agreement that would replace the backstop, and would expect the same of the United Kingdom, so that the backstop would only be in place for as long as strictly necessary.

5. The European Council calls for work on preparedness at all levels for the consequences of the United Kingdom’s withdrawal to be intensified, taking into account all possible outcomes.

Doesn't look like they've given her diddly squat does it? Hey ho, another month wasted until the deal gets voted down in parliament. After that the only way that the UK can avoid a No Deal Brexit that's entirely within it's own power is to pass a bill to withdraw article 50.

Shame.

Berty23 said:

Sorry you lost me at they need us more. We represent about what 10 or 12 % of Eu exports. They represent about half of ours. Yes the amount that of money is greater for them but the proportion of trade is far far greater for us.

Think of it as two individuals.

Person 1 earns 100k a year. They get a 12k pay cut. So they only earn 88k a year

Person 2 earns 20k a year. They get a 10k pay cut. They now earn 10k a year.

In your “they need us more than we need them” scenario you believe the person getting a 12k pay cut will struggle more. Could anyone possibly look at these two examples and think the person who has seen a 12% pay cut and now earning 88k is worse off than someone who has a 50% pay cut now earning 10k?

This is the sort of level in descrepancy between us and the EU.

Haven’t all of the tories given up saying they need us more and that we will be better off? The latest efforts seem more like “we survived the war and think about the sovereignty”

I am staggered that anyone still believe they need us more.

Click to expand...

Expect Person 1 and Person 2, worked with 27 other employees, and person one and person two finance the business, and pay most of the salaries of the other 27 employess. So when person 2 leaves and takes all the money they pay into the business with them, while person one may only lose a little, the other 27 employees who pay nothing in to the business, suffer incredibly as well.

Person two can then work anywhere else they so choose and with who they please, without person 1 and 27 employees approval.

Person two after a tough start, thrives and within a few years becomes far more powerful that person 1, who becoming the only person in the club paying in money, suddenly see the workforce of 27 getting very peed off because there salaries are slashed ever since person 2 who was treated so badly by them in the past, finally had enough and left.

The EU is a sinking ship as it is, with mass unemployment, civil unrest, countries going, or close to going bust.

We will be free to trade with the rest of the world as well as the EU. I think in the medium to long term, they need us more than we need them. If we were Bulgaria, or Estonia, I may agree with you. But we are the UK, and have one of the strongest economises in the world. Don't worry. We'll be okay.

Has you got lost at the second sentence, I will post the rest again for you. That's if you have the energy of moving the mouse, as your arm must ache with all that white flag waving you seem to be doing.

No deal will mean we will agree a new final date and work towards it. No pay outs. No terms we don't like, and nothing will change.... to begin with. We will agree things like citizens rights etc as we go, document by documents. If we don't agree on something, it won't happen.

I think we will leave on the 29th. I think we will leave without a deal. We will have a transition period. The EU would be blowing its own brains out if we didn't. Could you image the unrest in Germany is they couldn't exports cars to us. Could you image the French if there wine industry died because they couldn't export to us!!! These countries are on the brink as it is with civil unrest amongst its people. Are the leaders going to allow that to happen. Are they hell! There will be civil unrest over the whole of the EU. The far right will have a field day!

But I think we will barely notice a difference to begin with. If you really think we will be cast adrift by the EU, then I think you are wrong.

They are bluffing. We it becomes obvious to them that we will have to leave without a deal, they will rewrite the laws, in typical EU fashion, and do all the can to make it as easy as transition as possible, because if we get ****ed up, the EU gets ****ed up, and they know that, and are not about to allow that to happen, no matter how big and tough they look at the moment.

Our biggest mistake was trying to negotiate with a bully. We should have played hard ball from day one, and prepared for no deal from day one. They would have come crawling to us little Oliver Twist looking for gruel had we done that. As it is, we have given them the upper hand, because we have a wet fart running the country.

Best thing she can do now, is put it to the vote, let parliament kick it out, and then go full throttle towards no deal........... we may then find the EU trying a little harder to obtain a deal. I am still convinced they think we are going to call it off and stay. We need to prove that won't happen, then and only then, can we get serious with them.

Mental Lental said:

Text of EU summit conclusions on Brexit
UK withdrawal deal 'not open for renegotiation'

1. The European Council reconfirms its conclusions of 25 November 2018, in which it endorsed the Withdrawal Agreement and approved the Political Declaration. The Union stands by this agreement and intends to proceed with its ratification. It is not open for renegotiation.

2. The European Council reiterates that it wishes to establish as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom in the future. It stands ready to embark on preparations immediately after signature of the Withdrawal Agreement to ensure that negotiations can start as soon as possible after the UK’s withdrawal.

3. The European Council underlines that the backstop is intended as an insurance policy to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland and ensure the integrity of the Single Market. It is the Union’s firm determination to work speedily on a subsequent agreement that establishes by 31 December 2020 alternative arrangements, so that the backstop will not need to be triggered.

4. The European Council also underlines that, if the backstop were nevertheless to be triggered, it would apply temporarily, unless and until it is superseded by a subsequent agreement that ensures that a hard border is avoided. In such a case, the Union would use its best endeavours to negotiate and conclude expeditiously a subsequent agreement that would replace the backstop, and would expect the same of the United Kingdom, so that the backstop would only be in place for as long as strictly necessary.

5. The European Council calls for work on preparedness at all levels for the consequences of the United Kingdom’s withdrawal to be intensified, taking into account all possible outcomes.

Doesn't look like they've given her diddly squat does it? Hey ho, another month wasted until the deal gets voted down in parliament. After that the only way that the UK can avoid a No Deal Brexit that's entirely within it's own power is to pass a bill to withdraw article 50.

Shame.

Click to expand...

The other way to to work hard towards a no deal, and wait for the knock at the door from the EU.

Do you think parliament would pass a bill to cancel Brexit. Our MP are cowards as they have proven this week. But they are not idiots. If they cancel article 50, they cancel democracy. I don't think enough of them are brave enough to live in a "democratic" country, where democracy doesn't rule. I think a lot of MPs will be in very grave danger if they pulled that stunt.