[Cricket] Poor Aussies

the right footed denilson · May 31, 2019

Audax said:
Looks like you've got a real star there, and one that follows in the proud English tradition of importing talent .

Might be a controversial thing to say, but for the Ashes I'd suggest you go with Anderson + Archer + whoever of Wood, S.Curran, Woakes is both fit and in form for the Ashes. Take the opportunity to say goodbye to Broad - you'll have a stronger batting line up, and with both Anderson and Broad getting close to retirement it's probably a good idea to try to separate out when they go. Broad's been inconsistent for a while now (periodically match-winning brilliant interspersed with periods of uselessness). Get rid now, get what you can out of Anderson until he chooses to go, and blood the young fellas alongside him.

I don't think it's controversial at all. Broad doesn't appear to have that Indian Summer in him that Jimmy had/has.

hans kraay fan club · May 31, 2019

Audax said:
Looks like you've got a real star there, and one that follows in the proud English tradition of importing talent .

Archer has an English Dad, and a British passport. It is a nonsense that he needed to wait to qualify on residency grounds, at all.

Audax · May 31, 2019

hans kraay fan club said:
Archer has an English Dad, and a British passport. It is a nonsense that he needed to wait to qualify on residency grounds, at all.

You just got whooshed. By an Aussie. Ouch.

Frankie · May 31, 2019

Trying to defend the indefensible is a pointless act of patriotic lunacy , then to point blame elsewhere as a defense in the cause of skulduggery parity is ridiculous and frankly laughable , i would imagine most if not all international cricket teams have tried at some point to gain a advantage by manipulating the cricket ball in some way , for example , rubbing sweat into the seams , picking the seam , ect ect , but at no time in watching cricket for 50 odd years can i recall any such blatant cheating as rubbing the ball with sandpaper .

The thing is that it was a premeditated act and no doubt used before by the Australian team when conditions were not in their favour , and this is what has stirred the public into general hatred of perpetrators , the premeditation , so you can roll out accusations of cheating by other countries all day long , they will never be seen as bad as what happened in that game , and nor should they be , because iv'e not seen the likes of it and hopefully never will again .

Audax · May 31, 2019

Frankie said:
Trying to defend the indefensible (1) is a pointless act of patriotic lunacy , then to point blame elsewhere (2) as a defense in the cause of skulduggery parity is ridiculous and frankly laughable , i would imagine most if not all international cricket teams have tried at some point to gain a advantage by manipulating the cricket ball in some way , for example , rubbing sweat into the seams , picking the seam , ect ect , but at no time in watching cricket for 50 odd years can i recall any such blatant cheating as rubbing the ball with sandpaper .

The thing is that it was a premeditated act and no doubt used before by the Australian team when conditions were not in their favour , and this is what has stirred the public into general hatred of perpetrators , the premeditation , so you can roll out accusations of cheating by other countries all day long , they will never be seen as bad as what happened in that game , and nor should they be , because iv'e not seen the likes of it (3) and hopefully never will again .

1. I'm not defending it. I've openly said it was wrong, and they got the punishment they deserved.

2. I'm not trying to deflect blame away from the Aussies. I'm trying to point out that there is blame to be placed elsewhere *in addition* to the blame that the Aussies have rightly been apportioned.

3. I have, several times, by multiple players/teams. Bottle tops have been used. Faf has used a zipper on his trousers (no doubt a pair of trousers deliberately chosen *because* they had a pocket zipper). And probably the closest example to this one: Trescothick conducting a series of experiments to determine which sweets were best for shining the ball to produce swing for the 2005 Ashes. I'm assuming you watched that series? If you did, you've seen an equally as bad case of premeditated, deliberate, ball tampering in a successful attempt at cheating. By your own team, by Trescothick's own admission. The Aussies were clumsy in the way they did it, but they were not the first. I just hope they are the last.

This isn't defending the Aussies, or shifting blame. It's a realistic look at the sport as a whole, and recognition that there's a bigger picture. I am first and foremost a fan of the sport of cricket. That comes ahead of any national considerations or international rivalries. You'd do well to recognise the underlying issues within the sport as a whole that left open the possibility that a player, or players, or team could and did do something that the sport should never have allowed to happen once, let alone twice, and should never allow to ever happen again.

The sport's failure to treat ball tampering as seriously as it has match fixing (and yes, I do equate the two broadly speaking - both are blatant attempts to cheat the normal results of a match) is a stain on the history of sport. The sport had opportunities historically to ensure that no team would ever countenance doing what the Aussies did, and failed to take those opportunities. Not least of which was after Trescothick's 2008 admission about the cheating in the '05 Ashes series.

Stumpy Tim · May 31, 2019

Greavsey said:
Really? This actually happened??

Yes, yes it did

Questions · May 31, 2019

Audax said:
As mentioned in one of my other replies here - the culture in and around the Aussie cricket team was piss poor. As an Aussie, I expect that team to play hard, and yes I expect a bit of banter / sledging as part of that. But not to the point it gets toxic, and that's where it was during that South African tour (from both sides, but that doesn't excuse it) and where it had been for some time before that. It started with Steve Waugh's side, but was entering "I don't like this" during Clarke's captaincy and then Smith oversaw it going too far. I certainly don't like the hypocritical approach that was taken at times where it was deemed acceptable for an Aussie to cross the line a time or two, but any opposition player who even approached the line got called out. It was wrong, and it always has been. I'm not a huge fan of Langer and his approach, either. But equally I'm not a huge fan of a lot of what I'm seeing in this thread either - while justified, it's over-the-top, and it's time to move on.

I haven't played outdoor club cricket in Australia for a very long time (my last game was late 90's, and it was a one-off). Most of my cricket playing in Australia was ACT competition level indoor cricket, which included playing alongside and briefly (before I had a major back injury) training with the ACT second XI. Within the indoor scene, the culture was fantastic - I never encountered any of the issues mentioned in the article. Lots of good-natured banter and the odd argument, but never anything overtly nasty.

I've been playing outdoor cricket with a club in the south east on and off over the last few years. I was playing in the lower divisions of the ESCL (7/8/9) prior to the formation of the new Sussex league. Again, vast majority of that has seen some jolly good natured banter. A lot of it aimed at me, from both my own club and opposition players. Being the only Aussie on a field full of English cricketers, it's to be expected. It remained good natured even after Cape Town - I even at times directed banter at myself because I found it helped get things going on the right foot. I usually open the bowling when I play, and I often wear an Aussie hat when playing so I'm an obvious target. I found getting it out of the way early on was a great way of establishing the right atmosphere for a game.

Having said that, over the years I have seen some genuinely ugly incidents in English club cricket. In the lower division, they're normally created because theirs no independent umpires You've got members of the batting team filling umpiring duties, and some are lacking in integrity. I've seen incidents where a youngster has been sent out to umpire while their captain is out batting. The captain is a big fella, with a ... shall we say, "forceful" nature. There's been situations where said captain has been given not out after getting a big nick behind, standing their ground, and staring aggressively at their own player blatantly intimidating them into giving the not out decision. Result: opposition captain, and hotheads within my own club, standing mid-pitch having a nasty exchange, and then even after being separated and the game continuing the atmosphere is from that point poisoned. And tends to carry on in the return match if the same players are on the field.

I reckon you’ve got a book in you.

Triggaaar · May 31, 2019

Audax said:
There's a massive racism problem in Australia. Same as there is here in the UK, in the US, and just about everywhere in the world.

There we go. Just pretend everywhere is the same.

Pinkie Brown · May 31, 2019

That would be the same Justin Langer who was involved in this incident. Not gamesmanship, just blatant cheating. Strange choice as team manager from the ACB if they wished to change the toxic culture of the Australian team.

Stumpy Tim · May 31, 2019

Audax said:
You just got whooshed. By an Aussie. Ouch.

Clearly not. You just got it wrong, and he rightly pointed it out

Audax · May 31, 2019

Stumpy Tim said:
Clearly not. You just got it wrong, and he rightly pointed it out

Note the smiley in the original post. I went fishing, and I got a bite. Now I've got two.

(Same happens in Australia. Recent examples: we've got Khawaja, and we fast-tracked Fawad Ahmed through gaining citizenship before realising he wasn't good enough. There's Renshaw as well).

Audax · May 31, 2019

Pinkie Brown said:
That would be the same Justin Langer who was involved in this incident. Not gamesmanship, just blatant cheating. Strange choice as team manager from the ACB if they wished to change the toxic culture of the Australian team.

Part of the reason I don't like him. He tries hard to present himself as a cheeky-chappy prankster, but that veneer wore off a long time ago.

LlcoolJ · May 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
I want to buy a ticket to an Aussie match, just so that I can boo.

Some of the dads and lads from our club are going to Australia v SA at Old Trafford so we can do just that.

Raleigh Chopper · May 31, 2019

Aussies, pah! hard on the outside, marshmallows on the inside, plenty of mouth, no guts, great at telling everyone when they win, run away when they lose.

pasty · May 31, 2019

Raleigh Chopper said:
Aussies, pah! hard on the outside, marshmallows on the inside, plenty of mouth, no guts, great at telling everyone when they win, run away when they lose.

* Except certain goalkeepers :thumbsup:

Gwylan · May 31, 2019

Pinkie Brown said:
That would be the same Justin Langer who was involved in this incident. Not gamesmanship, just blatant cheating. Strange choice as team manager from the ACB if they wished to change the toxic culture of the Australian team.

I'm always happy to join in some Aussie bashing but that looks a bit desperate. That was neither gamesmanship or cheating. A bail had come off and the Aussies just questioned it - it was quickly cleared up. There are plenty of examples of poor Australian behaviour without picking on that.

I note that the guy who seemed to leading the queries was a certain Sussex coach, so perhaps the less said the better.

pasty · May 31, 2019

Gwylan said:
I'm always happy to join in some Aussie bashing but that looks a bit desperate. That was neither gamesmanship or cheating. A bail had come off and the Aussies just questioned it - it was quickly cleared up. There are plenty of examples of poor Australian behaviour without picking on that.

I note that the guy who seemed to leading the queries was a certain Sussex coach, so perhaps the less said the better.

Did you watch the entire video? Skip to around 3.20 and will see Langer clearly DELIBERATELY knocking the bail off.

Raleigh Chopper · May 31, 2019

pasty said:
* Except certain goalkeepers

Oh yes, forgot about that, there is always an exception.

AnotherArch · May 31, 2019

In the 'old days' the Aussie crowds may not have booed as much - they just threw bottles and cans at John Snow in front of the Hill in Sydney.
A rare occasion in Australia when 'Snow stopped play'!

Gwylan · May 31, 2019

pasty said:
Did you watch the entire video? Skip to around 3.20 and will see Langer clearly DELIBERATELY knocking the bail off.

Yeah, but it wasn't Langer who was querying that the bail had come off - it was Gillespie and Gilchrist who were doing that and I don't think they knew that Langer had flicked it. I'd be shocked if Gilchrist did - he was one of the most honest of cricketers

As the commentator said "it was something a bit childish" and it was someone behaving like a prat rather being a cheat.

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