In terms of MPs? Maybe. In terms of the party as a whole? No way. Not a shred of evidence suggests as much.
Rich and influential people generally voted Leave. Why? You may wish to look up what the EU is doing about tax havens in the coming months.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
In terms of MPs? Maybe. In terms of the party as a whole? No way. Not a shred of evidence suggests as much.
Rich and influential people generally voted Leave. Why? You may wish to look up what the EU is doing about tax havens in the coming months.
On the subject of "riots if we don't get Brexit", is this not just "Project Fear"?
And like actual Project Fear rather than a load of people who understand how stuff works saying "this stuff won't work" and loads of people who don't understand how that stuff works saying "YES IT WILL, PROJECT FEAR!!!1!!!!!"
And like actual Project Fear rather than a load of people who understand how stuff works saying "this stuff won't work" and loads of people who don't understand how that stuff works saying "YES IT WILL, PROJECT FEAR!!!1!!!!!"
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
[tweet]1087445706393161728[/tweet]
No. Not at all. I was talking about the money we already pay.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
There is of course the view that the Cooper amendment, which has a formal withdrawal of 'no-deal' as its end-point, could culminate in a large shift of ERG members moving towards the May deal. I believe that around 50 Tories have said that they would not do so even if the backdrop issue was resolved - that's a big number but it could be compensated for by Labour rebels.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,744
Erm.......
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...were-only-group-to-vote-to-stay-in-the-e/amp/
What is it you are ashamed of, the rich and inflential voted remain en-masse. You are in a very unique group If you think it was the rich (as a general group) that wanted to leave. This is why many many labour MPs are playing with fire, their predominantly working class constituencies voted leave.
As for cracking down on tax havens, really? Check out the back story of Jean Claude Juncker?
I like you, you have a lovable sense of naivety.
Sorry but "AB" is not purely made up of the very wealthy. Most people in skilled jobs would fall into that camp, but it also covers things such as education levels and similar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRS_social_grade
However in the very upper echelons the so-called 0.1% generally voted Leave. We know that because they are the ones now pushing for it as per the examples cited earlier.
As for feeling "ashamed" that wealthy people voted Remain, I'm not in the slightest. I'd much rather find myself in the same camp as Goldman Sachs than the same camp as the EDL.
I was going to say "Lies, damn lies and statistics", but it's not actually relevant because as usual you've posted something that doesn't back up what you're saying in the hope we don't bother to read it. You're posting this as evidence of support that the rich and influential voted remain en-masse, not unlike how you insist the nation wants Corbyn's socialism just because you found a poll showing support for the re-nationalisation of the railways, Both are total bollocks again and both are examples of you being duplicitous.
Just read the article - it clearly states that 57% of "AB" types voted remain - now how exactly is that "overwhelming"? Regardless, "AB" types make up 27% of the population, so hardly constitute "the rich and influential" you want us all to believe are the tiny minority running the country and looking only after their own interests.
So what you'll be wanting is a poll that shows the 4% that make up the "A" social group all voting for remain. I look forward to that*. Whilst you're at it, some more evidence of this country wanting socialism might further your cause too - but naturally something other than an irrelevant poll that most sane people would agree only serves to highlight railway incompetence in the public mind.
*not really expecting it of course, instead you'll just default to accusing anyone who doesn't agree with you of being a Tory.
Edit: beaten to it by [MENTION=35904]A1X[/MENTION]. Glad to see his lies are being exposed by others too.
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Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
A lot will depend on whether the DUP follow the ERG. I've never been certain exactly how fervently brexit-y that lot are, probably not hugely as NI was majority remain.
Guardian has a very good breakdown today of how Parliament has divided into different camps, with May's deal (with backstop changes) likely to pass on backs of 186 loyalist tories + 12 anti-no-deal tories + 109 brexiter tories + 10 DUP + 3 Labour brexiters + 3 independents = 323 and a narrow win.
Same analysis suggests a second referendum with Labour front bench backing would only pick up 9 tories and fall short at 286, although an opposition-led attempt to extend article 50 and stop no deal would collect 331 votes
nicko31
Well-known member
Problem is "with backstop changes". The cast was set in December 2017 and nothing really has changed, the Emperor has no clothes
Seems that a no deal to Europe will mean a 1.5% hit to Europe (not great) but a 7% hit to us.
Pretty sure a no deal would see Scotland leave the UK, EEA / EFTA would be hard to resist and we'd need some sort of border up there too
Can't see a 2nd ref getting a majority (yet) but probably the most popular option against others and no deal
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Regardless of the context, the line "as it happens, it may make more sense to have the second referendum after the renegotiation" is a logical argument, and the logic applies equally here. He and you will say it was a different matter and out of context, but he saw the logic in having a second referendum once something had been talked out with the EU and he argued for it, I have no doubt that he still sees the logical argument for having one now, but it does not suit his agenda now. If he felt that we would get a result in favour of a hard brexit from a referendum instead of a Brexit that he felt was keeping us too close to the EU, he would favour one now.
It is not the principle he is against, it is the result that he fears it will bring, you know it, and we have all seen him make the argument in principle.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
No, I think the EU should have the first 3-5% of all corporation tax from all member states, 80% of tariff collected by all member states, and a small amount from members, based upon their GDPPP. Any budget surplus should be put aside for additional help for any member experiencing a problem not of their making, like the migrant crisis in Italy and Greece, or a natural disaster etc
In this way, countries wishing to give companies a soft touch on taxation to encourage them to base their head offices there may still do so, but those companies cannot avoid their responsibilities to the wider EU entirely.
I agree that we should not have austerity except in extreme circumstances, and we should not stop helping poorer countries except in extreme circumstances, though I would want to see some better oversight than it seems there is on the use of foreign aid funds.
The EU has a sort of manifesto. It has stated goals and stated values, and I am happy for it to work towards and with those.
A question I'm surprised nobody has ever asked is whether the DUP commitment to ensuring Northern Ireland is not treated differently to the rest of the UK extends to whether they would back Remain if it came to that vs backstop splitting NI off from the rest of the UK. After all, the issue completely and unequivocally goes away with Remain.
My suspicion is at some point the two largest camps on the similar side of the argument (EEA or PV) will have to unite behind one, and whichever that is will get through. I don't know which one it is at present, a case could be made for either, although my hunch suggests EEA on the basis it doesn't rule out a future PV in the way a PV does to EEA.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Juncker is poacher turned gamekeeper.
Which rich are talking about, and how do you know how they voted? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't want to let that be an accepted fact, without you showing some evidence for it, as I don't think I have seen any ever.
I don't really disagree, but who are you suggesting in her place?
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,744
Social Class A is the top 4% of society, defined as follows:
The upper middle class in Britain traditionally consists of the educated professionals who were born into higher income backgrounds, such as legal professionals or executives. This stratum, in England, traditionally uses Received Pronunciation natively. A typical Mosaic geodemographic type for this group would be cultural leadership. It is also usually assumed that this class is most predominant in the home counties of South East England and the more affluent boroughs of London. Children of this group are often educated at a preparatory school until about 13 years old and then at one of the "major" or "minor" British public schools[23][24] which will typically charge fees of at least £11,500 per year per pupil (as of 2013)[25][26] followed by one of the most prestigious universities, often within the Russell Group.
This is not a group that includes super hods and ultra effective piece working plasterers. This group is the bourgois, the elite, the ruling classes aka the establishment. You are demonstrating a typical behaviour here amongst some leavers to reject facts that dont align with your prejudice. Bigotry if you will.
This thread is dripping in contempt for the working class that voted Brexit, the euphamisms of racism, gammon and the plebs is everywhere.
Your final point is just another reference in the maelstrom of bile for millions of normal working British people, it shows neatly that you are on side with the likes of Goldman Sachs as oppose to the white working class that you parcel up as the EDL.
QED.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Martin Lewis is on Politics Live and has just described Brexit as "not just a poisoned chalice, but a poisoned chalice that someone has urinated in".