Mobile Catering - small businesses

BensGrandad · Sep 3, 2016

nickbrighton said:
In Brighton you need a street traders licence to operate , there are two zones, Zone A sea front and london and lewes rd corridors, and Zone B- everywhere else. Zone A there are only a few static pitches and everywhere else is prohibited, and Zone B you can pitch up anywhere as long as you are not illegally parked. On private property you dont neerd a licence (you will however still require ffood safety and Hygene certs). You have to regester as a mobile food business with Environmental Health , you also need product and public liability insurance

Not arguing cos I dont know but how did the council get that burger stall that was on private land outside Falmer Station shut down but now there are two 20 yds down the same piece of walkway. Unless of course when it looked to be in someones back garden it wasnt actually on private land.

TheJasperCo · Sep 3, 2016

I have no experience in the industry, but surely there's an industrial estate or offices where you can scoot round for a couple hours over lunch on a weekday? There's at least one such mobile van at the East Worthing trading estate, another pitches up outside Durrington train station...each time blaring out that annoying jingle to announce their arrival. Some say that winter months may provide less revenue, but I would argue there's plenty of opportunities to entice weary commuters during the working week.

Mo Gosfield · Sep 3, 2016

As a rough guide, most mobile vans that go around industrial estates and offices, turn over approx £250-£350 per day, on a gross profit of about 55-60%. Static roadside vans can take anything from £150 to £800 a day depending on footfall. I knew someone who took a food van to France for Le Mans and did between £10,000 and £15,000 in 4 days, doing principally jacket potatoes and pizzas.
The catering world is wide and varied. Take your time, find a niche and work hard at it.

BensGrandad · Sep 3, 2016

I would think £800 a day for a static roadside mobile van is a very high estimate but then I dont know just my observations as posted earlier that most do not have the stopping passers by or lay by space to increase the turnover.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 3, 2016

BigGully said:
Seems to me this could get started with very little financial risk/cost, perhaps even without firstly not leaving her current employment but thats a personal decision.

A few events, range of her beautiful cakes and pastry's, a couple nice signs and trestle tables in the back of your estate car should do the trick, you can quickly gauge the demand on certain products.

A few months on and you can soon gauge whether a) its sustainable b) whether you need to invest in any further hardware, worst case scenario is you gave it a shot, no regrets, didnt lose your money nor you sanity .....

I guess it depends on what you want to be but as a mobile outlet I would have thought adding cakes to the mix would seriously increase the overheads and risk of wastage somewhat? The benefit of just coffee is the risk of wastage is minimal and you don't have to collect, or bake, and carry a load of stock with a very limited shelf-life.

I wonder what [MENTION=33955]nickbrighton[/MENTION] thinks?

nickbrighton · Sep 3, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
I guess it depends on what you want to be but as a mobile outlet I would have thought adding cakes to the mix would seriously increase the overheads and risk of wastage somewhat? The benefit of just coffee is the risk of wastage is minimal and you don't have to collect, or bake, and carry a load of stock with a very limited shelf-life.

I wonder what [MENTION=33955]nickbrighton[/MENTION] thinks?

there are several issues withh "homemade cakes" . Firstly is the time it takes to make them, especially if you are using a standard residential kitchen with even a range type oven. The problem here is that you need to spend hoyurs baking to produce enough prtoduct to make it worth while. You also have a storeage issue, both at home and on the van. As soon as you are using your kitchen to produce cakes for sale, you then need to comply with all Environmental health legestlation, this includes cleaning schedules and records, temperature conmtrol logs, seperate storeage for items used to make the cakes from your own food, seperate refridgeration and freezing, the kitchens need inspecting by the local EHO, All items bneed to be clearly labeled with best before, made dates, allergens, ingredients. You need strict stock rotation, and labeling. ]There is also the issue of packaging, you actually can not just turn up with a load of cakes and slice and seve as it were, it all needs packaging and labeling . Food items can nonly be left out unrefridgerated for 4 hours, so how do you store them when you are working?All this is not insurmountable by any means, but you also have to factor in that once made there is a vvery short shelf life, so it becomes difficult to make a load in advance. Then you have to factor in price, a nice slice of cake and coffee is great, but how much do you charge for it- If you work out the time it takes to produce a cake, ingredients etc you have to charge a small fortune or you end up woerking for next to nothing. I know from experience that it is no where near as straightforeward as it sounds!

Ernest · Sep 3, 2016

Wouldn't most decent spots already have someone in place ? I'd imagine anywhere good would be taken and guarded closely

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 3, 2016

nickbrighton said:
there are several issues withh "homemade cakes" . Firstly is the time it takes to make them, especially if you are using a standard residential kitchen with even a range type oven. The problem here is that you need to spend hoyurs baking to produce enough prtoduct to make it worth while. You also have a storeage issue, both at home and on the van. As soon as you are using your kitchen to produce cakes for sale, you then need to comply with all Environmental health legestlation, this includes cleaning schedules and records, temperature conmtrol logs, seperate storeage for items used to make the cakes from your own food, seperate refridgeration and freezing, the kitchens need inspecting by the local EHO, All items bneed to be clearly labeled with best before, made dates, allergens, ingredients. You need strict stock rotation, and labeling. ]There is also the issue of packaging, you actually can not just turn up with a load of cakes and slice and seve as it were, it all needs packaging and labeling . Food items can nonly be left out unrefridgerated for 4 hours, so how do you store them when you are working?All this is not insurmountable by any means, but you also have to factor in that once made there is a vvery short shelf life, so it becomes difficult to make a load in advance. Then you have to factor in price, a nice slice of cake and coffee is great, but how much do you charge for it- If you work out the time it takes to produce a cake, ingredients etc you have to charge a small fortune or you end up woerking for next to nothing. I know from experience that it is no where near as straightforeward as it sounds!

I guessed as much.

Purely out of curiosity where do you sell your stuff? Do you have a regular spot or do you do events?

Justice · Sep 3, 2016

I always think food poisoning risk alert when I contemplate stopping at one and pass on by. Fella next door to our shop opened a wood fire Pizza place and does well think a large Pizza is £6.99 with a sour dough base and smaller ones from £1.50. He also does lunchtime wraps which go down well. I know you have the initial investment with a small shop but people trust it if the foods good. Location is everything choose somewhere near a large office block if you can.

nickbrighton · Sep 4, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
I guessed as much.

Purely out of curiosity where do you sell your stuff? Do you have a regular spot or do you do events?

i do events, though have only just started, I did a two day country show at Ardingly showground, and the Peacehaven summer fair

Moshe Gariani · Sep 4, 2016

Ernest said:
Wouldn't most decent spots already have someone in place ? I'd imagine anywhere good would be taken and guarded closely

This is also what I would assume. The real goldmines in this sector must be the prime sites and events which have been stitched up long ago.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 4, 2016

nickbrighton said:
i do events, though have only just started, I did a two day country show at Ardingly showground, and the Peacehaven summer fair

Whilst I'm sure it's hard work it does sound fun and interesting travelling around to different events. Good luck and I'll certainly stop by if I ever see you.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 4, 2016

Moshe Gariani said:
This is also what I would assume. The real goldmines in this sector must be the prime sites and events which have been stitched up long ago.

True. So it would probably be pointless to target these. But, there are literally hundreds of new festivals, shows, events, exhibitions etc starting up every year so investigate these. As an example there's the first of a specialist music and arts festival in Newhaven this weekend. I'm no expert but I'm these dudes will probably like a decent coffee. There's about 5 new-ish music festivals in and around Brighton now. Again, check these out. Or find out who's behind them and find out what else they have in the pipeline. If you're both new you can grow together and built contacts together.

Triggaaar · Sep 4, 2016

Moshe Gariani said:
The most positive feature for me would be about getting good quality coffee available in a place where it currently isn't.

Is that also the most positive feature for Mrs G, or would she be happy selling a more standard product if it meant making more money and not having to work too much?

My experience of builders is that they don't want good quality, they just want a mug of original Nescafe. So good money to be made, but not the experience of selling a high quality product.

They sell proper coffee (I think, I don't drink coffee) in mobile units at train stations, catching people on the way too and from work. I guess office types might be more interested in proper coffee.

Moshe Gariani · Sep 4, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Is that also the most positive feature for Mrs G, or would she be happy selling a more standard product if it meant making more money and not having to work too much?

My experience of builders is that they don't want good quality, they just want a mug of original Nescafe. So good money to be made, but not the experience of selling a high quality product.

They sell proper coffee (I think, I don't drink coffee) in mobile units at train stations, catching people on the way too and from work. I guess office types might be more interested in proper coffee.

Good points. Mrs G is keenest on the festivals/events side of things (funny that!).

I haven't ever noticed anyone doing it but would it be barmy to major on proper coffee at its normal inflated price but also have Nescafe on the menu as a budget choice...?

Triggaaar · Sep 4, 2016

Moshe Gariani said:
Good points. Mrs G is keenest on the festivals/events side of things (funny that!).

I haven't ever noticed anyone doing it but would it be barmy to major on proper coffee at its normal inflated price but also have Nescafe on the menu as a budget choice...?

Out of 10, I'd rate my expertise on this subject at about 0. But I'm willing to guess

I would think if you set yourself up as a high quality food or drink retailer, selling something of too low quality would detract from your business. But it should be straight forward to see if that's true - just go into some good coffee shops and see what they offer as a budget option.

A way around it if you're wanting to offer basic to builders, is to have two price boards - one for rocking up at a building site, one for going to offices etc.

As well as my lack of knowledge or experience in beverage retailing, I offer even less knowledge regarding coffee. My guess is that a large part of the price is the time and effort etc, not the coffee itself, so selling Nescafe at a reduced price will reduce the markup substantially.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 4, 2016

Moshe Gariani said:
Good points. Mrs G is keenest on the festivals/events side of things (funny that!).

I haven't ever noticed anyone doing it but would it be barmy to major on proper coffee at its normal inflated price but also have Nescafe on the menu as a budget choice...?

My gut feeling is that if you're at an event few people will queue and pay money for a mug of instant coffee. I've been to loads of music festivals of various sizes and clientele and you will always see at healthy queue of punters in the morning wanting a half decent coffee. But, I have noticed that a lot of vendors, as a half-way house between instant and a fancy barista machine, have huge flasks of pre-filtered coffee to speed up service.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 4, 2016

As an aside, who would have believed, say 20 years ago, that you could get away with tea and coffee being charged at about the same price as a pint of ale?

BigGully · Sep 4, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
I guess it depends on what you want to be but as a mobile outlet I would have thought adding cakes to the mix would seriously increase the overheads and risk of wastage somewhat? The benefit of just coffee is the risk of wastage is minimal and you don't have to collect, or bake, and carry a load of stock with a very limited shelf-life.

I wonder what [MENTION=33955]nickbrighton[/MENTION] thinks?

Makes projected forecasts easier .........

Cost per cup. profit per cup, necessary turnover to break even, tough shout for me HT, if possible I would expect to sell an extra item with a sold cup of coffee to try and increase profits.

The volume of coffee needed to be sold to get some level of reward to work ratio is quite staggering a good mate of mine started through a franchise (his first mistake) a milkshake company and we had a similar discussion about the volume of sales required to break even, he went ahead and lost £70 000 in a couple of months ..................

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