[News] World Wide Evil Organisation Hiding In Plain Sight

Me and my Monkey said:

Human nature is to distort, corrupt, hijack anything which might be used to control, subjugate and exploit the masses. I'm pretty sure that Jesus and St Peter did not have any of this in mind when they set in motion what later became the Catholic Church. It would be a shame to condemn it as all evil, though. Some people love and need their religion and it brings them much comfort, and there have undoubtedly been good individuals doing great things within the Church.

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The problem with that particular religion was that the 'message' was codified and subsumed into the Roman Empire, creating by definition an Institutionalised version, with elements of the Roman Empire and Christianity remaining to today. If the Gnostic Gospels discovered at Nag Hammadi are taken at face value (and why shouldn't they be?) then the true gospel of Jesus was very different from that presented in the New Testament and was far more 'sympathetic' or inclusive of women, for example.

Bob'n'weave said:

I'm not going to bash my own religion, I like the Catholic faith/church, it does some wonderful things. But like most groups/sects/orgs/church's etc it is made up of flawed beings - us. Any church, of any religion is going to have its fair share of wrong'uns.

You could just as well be talking about Facebook, Islam or the Masons. Why pick on Catholics? Or should we just start burning them again?
Maybe instead of burning effigies of the nations favourite naughty Catholic ,Guy Fawkes, on Nov 5th, we should just grab any local Catholic and get busy with the Swan Vestas? Yes, that should do it, job done, evil rooted out for all to see.

Or do you have a 'final solution'?

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Yes, religious organisations take a long look at the wealth invested in property and stocks and see how best that could be used for the greater good of humanity, whilst they're at it they hold their own people to account and look at the real value of missionaries and others working in the name of the church / religion.

There's are wrong'uns everywhere but there's also wrong'uns shielding their activities in organisations that do very little to prevent their vile and immoral actions ... and don't get me started on politicians!

I’ll defend it … to a degree. It’s not an evil organisation in the sense that it sets out to do evil. Evil isn’t it’s reason for being. I’m sure 99% of it’s followers are not criminals, they are horrified by, and condemn this persistent criminal behaviour. I see it that the organisation has failed (catastrophically) to modernise its practices. So for example for the last 100 years at least, there’s been an awareness that the levels of repression of a lifetime of celibacy can lead to increasingly warped behaviour, but it has chosen to do nothing. It’s other main mistake is the cover up, “we look after our own” culture. This is quite a common trait in organisations, eg police, army etc. Culture is lead from the top and what is coming out over the last 10 year is the result of 100s of years of leadership failure. And to be fair, it seems to me that the current pope is doing a bit more about it that some previously. Admitting it, is after all the first step. There will undoubtedly be more hideous revelations to come.

nickbrighton said:

Picture this if you can, and ask why its allowed to continue. . A world wide organisation that has huge wealth,immense influence over its billions of followers, counts as its members heads of government, business leaders, Artists. In its time this organisation has tortured, imprisoned and even executed those who disagree with its principals and teachings. Its instructions to millions of people in the world have directly lead to thousands probably millions of people infected with and dying from a preventable disease by telling them to practice unsafe sex and that to protect themselves is a sin. It has time and again been proved to not only to have paedophiles and sexual predators in its ranks, but to have actively covered up and protected such abusers and the abuse they perpetrated. Its leader revered by billions has openly admitted that its leaders have not only commited such acts, but in some cases kept groups women as sex slaves. Countless cases of sexual abuse of children by its representatives across the world have been documented and proven. This organisation is allowed not only to police itself, (something which it patently doesn't do, but seems immune to condemnation and reprisal. Governments around the world do nothing to try and curtail its activities.

This then is the modern Catholic Church.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47134033

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Meh, it's merely 'culturally appropriate' behaviour. Don't be so Cathophobic.

Papa Lazarou said:

David Icke is the only sane person left...

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Bob'n'weave said:

I'm not going to bash my own religion, I like the Catholic faith/church, it does some wonderful things. But like most groups/sects/orgs/church's etc it is made up of flawed beings - us. Any church, of any religion is going to have its fair share of wrong'uns.

You could just as well be talking about Facebook, Islam or the Masons. Why pick on Catholics? Or should we just start burning them again?
Maybe instead of burning effigies of the nations favourite naughty Catholic ,Guy Fawkes, on Nov 5th, we should just grab any local Catholic and get busy with the Swan Vestas? Yes, that should do it, job done, evil rooted out for all to see.

Or do you have a 'final solution'?

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I think the big difference between the Catholic Church and the numerous other organisations with vile members (and you quite correctly pointed out most large organisations will have them) is that the Catholic Church has not only known about such practices for decades it has tried-usually successfully- to cover it up, to such an extent it borders on condoning it. I cant think of any other "respectable" organisation that from the very top down, goes to such lengths to not only protect the guilty (Oh father, that was unwise, lets pay off the victims and move you somewhere safe, dont worry we will not involve the Police). But its not just the illegal activities is it? Successive Popes condemnation of the use of Condoms in Africa for example, when its been known for decades that simply by saying "to prevent the spread of HIV we recommend condoms" would have saved countless lives. Does the church do good? Yes, but if for example the Maffia defended their activities by saying "Ah forget about the murders and the drugs, look at the schools we have built" would that be ok? If the church had seriously tried to tackle its problems then perhaps it would be seen in a different light by many

Being a catholic myself it ain’t perfect. Then nothing is and you learn that the older you get.
My main problem with the RM structure is that the pope is traditionally over 70. This has always felt like madness to me. It means most have at best a few years before they’re reporting directly to their boss!! So consistent change never happens. Maybe this is by design.........

Bakero said:

Are you expecting anyone to defend the Catholic church?

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Bob'n'weave said:

I'm not going to bash my own religion, I like the Catholic faith/church, it does some wonderful things. But like most groups/sects/orgs/church's etc it is made up of flawed beings - us. Any church, of any religion is going to have its fair share of wrong'uns.

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Oh.

....and your real point in posting all this tedious drivel on a match day is........

Bob'n'weave said:

I'm not going to bash my own religion, I like the Catholic faith/church, it does some wonderful things. But like most groups/sects/orgs/church's etc it is made up of flawed beings - us. Any church, of any religion is going to have its fair share of wrong'uns. :

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oh, thats alright then.

Cheshire Cat said:

....and your real point in posting all this tedious drivel on a match day is........

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So you feel the effective systematic abuse and slavery of a group of Nuns is tedious drivel? No need for you to comment or read any of the thread if you dont want to.

nickbrighton said:

I think the big difference between the Catholic Church and the numerous other organisations with vile members (and you quite correctly pointed out most large organisations will have them) is that the Catholic Church has not only known about such practices for decades it has tried-usually successfully- to cover it up, to such an extent it borders on condoning it. I cant think of any other "respectable" organisation that from the very top down, goes to such lengths to not only protect the guilty (Oh father, that was unwise, lets pay off the victims and move you somewhere safe, dont worry we will not involve the Police). But its not just the illegal activities is it? Successive Popes condemnation of the use of Condoms in Africa for example, when its been known for decades that simply by saying "to prevent the spread of HIV we recommend condoms" would have saved countless lives. Does the church do good? Yes, but if for example the Maffia defended their activities by saying "Ah forget about the murders and the drugs, look at the schools we have built" would that be ok? If the church had seriously tried to tackle its problems then perhaps it would be seen in a different light by many

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Meh.

Alcoholics Anonymous sounds pretty screwed up.

I've got a friend who claims he'll die if he doesn't attend his aa meetings (been going for nearly 9 years). He believes he has played no part in beating his addiction. He puts it all down to the meetings. Hearing him say this lead me to reading a lot of negative stuff about these meetings he's attending. Sounds more like a brainwashing cult than a support system.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...man-fights-aa-alcoholics-anonymous-narcissist

https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-aa-is-out-of-step-with-research-on-addiction

https://www.reddit.com/r/alcoholism/comments/5llzzn/aa_has_made_my_life_worse/

I opened up the thread thinking it might be the English.

Many of the worlds issues today are due to their actions. More so than the Catholics.

Five words "Down with this sort of thing".

SIX words,....

Papa Lazarou said:

To be honest this could be applied to any worldwide religion, plus a number of other worldwide organisations, particularly depending upon the reader's perspective.

Some people see the United Nations as evil, others worry about the Bilderberg Group, Illuminati?

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Nah. First there is no equivalent wordlwide religion. Islam didn't really start to spread from the mid east till the 20thC. Also it does not have one single command centre the equivalent of Rome or one leader equivalent to the Pope. And it isn't about what people 'see' as evil; fact is fact.

OK I will play devil's advocate now.

No organization can last near 2000 years without the following:

1. A structure of command and control
2. A widespread acceptance by its members/followers that the organization is working in its best interest, come what may.

The overwhelming success of the Catholic Church as a business that has thrived for longer than any other is based on the willingness of its shareholders/customers (stakeholders) to accept its authority in exchange for the promise of life everlasting in a place called Heaven. For this reason it has been able to 'get away' with a great deal, albeit for most of the time the stuff it has got away with was not regarded as especially bad at the time the stuff (like strident homophobia) was commonplace.

But of course, like all human organizations, it contains within it the full spectrum of people, from good to perverse. To protect the organization (all organizations must self preserve), decisions have been made to accomodate evil on a needs-must basis. Thus a bit of mutual blind eye turning allowed the Catholic church to survive Hitler and Mussolini. The days of Inquisition and torture are long past, and it is no more fair to judge the Catholics for long past evil than it is to judge other figures from the past by today's standards (recall the vilification of Churchill by some nobber recently). As for the much more recent blind eye turned to paedophiles and rapists in the church, this has been commonplace in all organizations until recently. It is more of an issue for the Catholic church because the church is so massive meaning the numbers of cases and people involved will be far in excess of that of other organizations. The case of Jimmy Savile shows that until recently everyone can be taken in by wishful thinking. Perhaps this is still the case....I know that scientific misconduct (an issue in my profession) remains largely a taboo topic which 'I am sure is extremely rare' (as most successful researchers will claim).

Anyway, the bottom line is that organizations including religions ought to be made, by law, to show themselves to be compliant with codes of conduct and be open to inspection especially with respect to any situations where a duty of care is owed to people who are beholden to the organization (from choir boys through kids in 'homes' to staff employed by the organization). Sadly, I suspect there are insufficient safeguards in law, with exemptions and areas simply not covered, when the business is a religion. Does anyone on NSC know for sure?

Even though I'm an athiest I am not keen on harassing the religious, but when it comes to relationships of unequal power, especially where adults hold sway over children, governments need to grow some, and not listen to special pleading. In my view, indoctrinating kids into any religion is potentiallt a form of child abuse (it depends on how it is done). Teaching small kids that homosexuality is a sin, or that menstruation is evil (I am not focusing on Catholicism here obviously) should be illegal. And there are of course issues of conflict of interest - perhaps allowing people of religion to hold positions of public power and influence should be made illegal. I'd go for that. But others will call that religious persecution.

One question for those who might know: If you want to work in social services dealing with kids you have to go through careful checks aimed at ensuring safeguarding. If you are a priest with a team of choir boys, or you are taking confirmation classes (as I received at St Nick's in Portslade at age 10) do you have to submit to the same procedures or are there exemptions?

Harry Wilson's tackle said:

Nah. First there is no equivalent wordlwide religion. Islam didn't really start to spread from the mid east till the 20thC. Also it does not have one single command centre the equivalent of Rome or one leader equivalent to the Pope. And it isn't about what people 'see' as evil; fact is fact.

...?

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What? You could not be more wrong. It's been in Europe since at least the 8th century (Battle of Poitiers stopped it spreading further north). Then there was the Ottoman empire where they pushed up to the gates of Vienna - and where do you think the Muslims in places like Bosnia cam from?

Norman Potting said:

Five words "Down with this sort of thing".

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Shy Talk said:

SIX words,....

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'of' isn't a word.

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