[Albion] Brighton Women Final Home Game this season to be staged at the Amex on 28th April

hart's shirt · Apr 5, 2019

Me and my Monkey said:
Gosh, I wasn’t expecting that, and I bow down to your clearly superior knowledge of the women’s game. However, I still maintain that your post was over-analysed, condescending, in fact even a little insulting. The team don’t play their home games at the Amex, that would clearly be ridiculous to have them rattling around in a huge stadium in front of a few hundred people, the Crawley stadium is a better fit. This is a one off. As many people on this forum have pointed out before, Crawley is just too far for them to get to. It’s a great opportunity for people to get along and watch them, in a lovely stadium, a bring along some friends (men, women, and children) to enjoy the experience.

You seem to suggest that the women’s game should survive on its own merits and shouldn’t be subsidised. All the WSL teams are supported and subsidised by big clubs, or it wouldn’t exist. Brighton and Hove Albion football CLUB have chosen to invest a lot in their women’s team, and consequently we are now one of just a handful of clubs that have a team playing in the top women’s league in the country. I’m very proud of our club for doing so. Women’s football is fast growing in popularity, and our club has a duty to encourage and generate interest in our team.

I agree that there is naturally going to be a higher proportion of women and girls attending the women’s games, little girls will naturally want to watch players who inspire them and who they will want to emulate, but men really DO go and watch too, I’ve seen them at the games, and as I’ve already said, my Monkey loves to go along too. No-one is being force fed anything. To suggest playing a game at the Amex is force feeding the poor, hapless male supporters is frankly ludicrous.

Do you object to the U23s playing at the Amex too, is it not force feeding youth football to us? I’ll be going along, incidentally, but I’m an Albion geek.

I'm not entirely sure of any sarcasm intended here, so I'll mix my sporting metaphors and play it with a straight bat. I certainly don't have a superior knowledge of the women's game. That said, I do remember listening to a lot of Jen O'Neill's commentaries and avidly follow the progress of the Lionesses through tournaments. And yes, I'll admit to being pretty sad for Laura Bassett in that 2015 World Cup Semi-Final against Japan.

I'm sorry if you felt insulted and the like - that honestly wasn't the aim. However, I was merely voicing opinions drawn from the reality of raw attendance numbers. Just because opinions are unpopular doesn't mean to say that they have no validity.

Should the Albion women play at the Amex for a one-off? Definitely.

Should it happen every season? Probably.

Should it happen every match based on current attendances? No.

Equally, no objection to the U23s or Youth Team playing a game at the Amex. It's a ground for all Albion sides.

To support the Albion women and increase exposure further, I'd suggest that there could even be consideration of an Albion women's game happening immediately following a Saturday men's lunchtime game at the Amex. I'm not sure if anything like that has been done previously by another Premier League side. If not, another first for the Albion, equality, diversity, club for all teams, etc. Plenty of media coverage for that, no doubt.

England Rugby did it this year with the Scotland games at Twickenham - first the men, then the women. (Don't ask me how the changing facilities would work, but that can be dealt with down the line...) It would be interesting to see how many of the 30,000 stayed, but on a nice day with the beer flowing freely in the concourses and no rush for trains/P&R, it might be a lot more attractive than at first glance.

Would some Albion supporters become supporters of Albion women? Maybe some. Like the World Cup, it's a bit of a one-off shot. But worth a try.

Me and my Monkey · Apr 5, 2019

hart's shirt said:
I'm not entirely sure of any sarcasm intended here, so I'll mix my sporting metaphors and play it with a straight bat. I certainly don't have a superior knowledge of the women's game. That said, I do remember listening to a lot of Jen O'Neill's commentaries and avidly follow the progress of the Lionesses through tournaments. And yes, I'll admit to being pretty sad for Laura Bassett in that 2015 World Cup Semi-Final against Japan.

I'm sorry if you felt insulted and the like - that honestly wasn't the aim. However, I was merely voicing opinions drawn from the reality of raw attendance numbers. Just because opinions are unpopular doesn't mean to say that they have no validity.

Should the Albion women play at the Amex for a one-off? Definitely.

Should it happen every season? Probably.

Should it happen every match based on current attendances? No.

Equally, no objection to the U23s or Youth Team playing a game at the Amex. It's a ground for all Albion sides.

To support the Albion women and increase exposure further, I'd suggest that there could even be consideration of an Albion women's game happening immediately following a Saturday men's lunchtime game at the Amex. I'm not sure if anything like that has been done previously by another Premier League side. If not, another first for the Albion, equality, diversity, club for all teams, etc. Plenty of media coverage for that, no doubt.

England Rugby did it this year with the Scotland games at Twickenham - first the men, then the women. (Don't ask me how the changing facilities would work, but that can be dealt with down the line...) It would be interesting to see how many of the 30,000 stayed, but on a nice day with the beer flowing freely in the concourses and no rush for trains/P&R, it might be a lot more attractive than at first glance.

Would some Albion supporters become supporters of Albion women? Maybe some. Like the World Cup, it's a bit of a one-off shot. But worth a try.

My opening comment genuinely wasn’t intended to be sarcastic. Reading my post back, though, I can see how it could easily be interpreted as such, so I apologise. But perhaps you too could read back through your initial post. To summarise, you seemed to suggest that women’s football shouldn’t be played at big stadiums, it’s a game only women and children can/should enjoy, and that it was being forced down men’s throats. All on a thread that was innocently started to give people the heads up that an Albion Women’s game was going to be played at the Amex at the end of the month, and it might be fun to go along. So you can possibly see how your comments came across as condescending. I believe mysogynistic was probably too strong. Your latest post now suggests that you and I probably agree on more than we disagree on.

amexer · Apr 5, 2019

It is fantastic what clubs are doing to back womens football. I have watched a couple of games. Not for me. It is different and very little resemblance to mens game. As profile rises hopefully gates will increase. Of course some Albion followers will go but agree game is so different that it needs to attract a new audience. See somebody listed gates at recent games and support for womens game should be judged on this and not on individual games like cup finals or international games. These like Albions semi final become an event and not just a game. I do hope it takes off but am still amazed that gates of 350 can justify 15 plus full time players.

rippleman · Apr 5, 2019

Giraffe said:
Fine to do it now and again, but not sure the pitch could cope with regular use by both teams. Also makes no sense to play the majority of games there with such low crowds. I understand it's a bit chicken and egg but doubt they will get that many more by playing at the AMEX.

Well, ideally the womens team would play at Lancing. Never got the idea of Brighton sending its womens team to play at another league clubs ground! Crawley is a pain in the arse for a non-driver to get to at the best of times, let alone on a Sunday. Worthing has an artificial surface; has any consideration been given to the womens side playing there?

Easy 10 · Apr 5, 2019

rippleman said:
Well, ideally the womens team would play at Lancing. Never got the idea of Brighton sending its womens team to play at another league clubs ground! Crawley is a pain in the arse for a non-driver to get to at the best of times, let alone on a Sunday. Worthing has an artificial surface; has any consideration been given to the womens side playing there?

Not sure artificial surfaces are allowed in the WSL. I might be wrong though. It has been known.

Guinness Boy · Apr 5, 2019

Beach Seagull said:
Nah get the birds to play topless.

Misogynist

hart's shirt said:
Respectfully, you've failed to address what I've argued here either about organically growing attendances at women's games, or the suitability of a stadium with a capacity over 83 times larger than the last home attendance.

If you think I'm being deliberately selective choosing a midweek game, the last Sunday home game (v Everton, Sun 13th January 2019) had 454 at the game. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46772730#tab-0

As someone who’s both coached and sponsored a women’s team for 4 years over here in DWFA (Dubai Women’s Football Association) with ladies ranging in ages from 14-52, it’s fair to say that I’ve done my bit with growing the women’s game, if only in a relatively small sense. I’m aware this revelation may not quite fit a ‘misogynist’ narrative, but it’s probably worth disclosing at this juncture.

It’s a shame that objective criticism is often viewed as vitriol. Most supporters of the beautiful game would probably love to see women's football succeed. To succeed properly though it needs to do what football, rugby union and league and all other sports did to get to where they are, and that's to grow from the bottom up. Money, attention and success follow popularity not the other way round.

It will be very interesting to see what effect that the recently-announced 3 year, £10m sponsorship of the WSL by Barclays will have. With WSL Yeovil going into administration due to financial difficulties in the last week and currently sitting on a points total of -3, it probably can’t come too soon. They follow on the heels of Notts County Ladies who folded on the eve of the Spring Series in 2017, just two days before their first scheduled match of that campaign. Last summer, Sunderland dropped down two divisions, from the WSL to the Women's National League North, after they were unsuccessful in their bid for a licence to play in one of the top two divisions. Sheffield FC and last season's second-tier winners Doncaster Rovers Belles both withdrew from the Championship last summer for financial reasons.

Even one of the best side in the women’s domestic game, Manchester City, haven't made it financially sustainable without support:
“Since integration with the men's team and a subsequent relaunch in 2014, City have come a long way, but in order to get this far, a loss of almost £1.5m has been incurred.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/manchester-united-womens-super-league-city-arsenal-liverpool-everton-a8270911.html

The reality is that a large percentage of supporters of football clubs across the country currently have no interest in watching their women's team. The gate figures consistently bear this out. They also have no interest in watching the youth team, reserves, or age group teams: again, the gate figures bear this out. Just because you put the women's team in the same kit doesn't mean that everyone will jump on the bandwagon. That’s why it’s important to grow the attendances away from the usual traditionally male fanbase. Similar to netball which has greatly increased its public visibility since the Commonwealth Games, the natural fanbase of women’s football are girls in schools. Reach out to them and the rest will follow.

Women's football has to survive and grow on its own merits. Subsidizing it and force-feeding it down football fans who only follow the men's game is not the way forward. Playing women's football regularly in massive stadiums is not the answer - it will simply highlight the lack of substance to the commerciality of the sport. Until women en masse choose to support women's football it will struggle.

And no amount of comments blaming men or perceived misogyny will change reality.

Not misogynist.

Gwylan · Apr 5, 2019

hart's shirt said:
England Rugby did it this year with the Scotland games at Twickenham - first the men, then the women. (Don't ask me how the changing facilities would work, but that can be dealt with down the line...)

It's a small point that you raise but, in the context of growing the women's game, it's an important one. It's one of the reasons why your idea of solely building the game from the bottom up is going to struggle.

I've been involved in girls rugby and one of the big bugbears (borne out by surveys) is the quality of the changing rooms. Very few clubs have dedicated changing rooms and women/girls tend to use male facilities (obviously not when the men are in them!). There are complaints about the lack of mirrors, hairdryers etc,

Many clubs talk about attracting more women (and that's true for rugby, cricket and football) but they're aware that they need to do more for changing facilities but these cost money, which they don't get from subs on their own.

That's why there's a need for some element of subsidy and why women's sport can't grow solely organically. There are other factors too but the idea that women's football will grow from the bottom up is an idealistic one

Beach Seagull · Apr 5, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
Misogynist

Not misogynist.

How does my comment make me a misogynist? Surely suggesting they play topless makes me a lover of women? Joking aside it would massively increase attendances more so than the BBC pretending we are all fascinated by it.

Guinness Boy · Apr 5, 2019

Firstly, good for the Albion in staging this and the England game in the summer. IMO these one offs will see decent comparable attendences and help with the growth of the women's game. There is a big group of us going to the England women's game and we're taking my daughter (more of her later). It should be a good day out.

BUT
There are a number of issues with both the Albion and the women's game in general.

Firstly, this will be a great occasion for the players and their regular fans, as well as attracting new fans to the game. And then what will happen? It will be sent back to the backwater of Crawley, that's what. And the poster who said it was akin to our Gillingham treck is right. That does NOT mean that every game should be at The Amex, because the posters stating that fans would rattle around in one open stand and the games would ruin the pitch have very good point. But why can a more local venue not be found? Just off the top of my head, Worthing, Whitehawk and Eastbourne Borough's grounds would all be perfectly suitable and truly in our catchment area. Lewes would too but, of course, they have their own pretty decent team.

Secondly, the need for it to be played in those size grounds are because, bluntly, it is not as popular as men's football nor is it as good. Having been part of the 3000 crowd the last time the women played at the Amex and struggling to watch the Women's World Cup when it was on telly, I've tried it and found it wanting. Frankly it's almost a different sport. Yet to state this out loud is to instantly be accused of sexism, as if that's the only debate point you can score back. But it is the case purely because of the speed, strength and experience of players relevant to the top echelons of the men's game and this won't change. Women sprinters are slower than men sprinters. Men are rubbish at childbirth. These are biological FACTS.

Thirdly the chicken and egg comment assumes that there is a huge untapped market of new fans just waiting to follow the women's game when the time becomes right. To which I say that, sadly, many females are simply not interested in the game. I coached at my son't club and we have girls in mixed teams in every age group up to under 13s but there are only one or two of them. Thinking they may have been put off we tried to start a girls only team. We had about three takers. It never even got to the point where there was even the thought that we might take it further. And, so, back to my daughter, whose reaction to the news that she was going to see England women at the Amex with us wasn't one of unbrideled joy, as my son's was when we got to Wembley. She said "I'll go if you want me to Daddy".

Gwylan · Apr 5, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
Thirdly the chicken and egg comment assumes that there is a huge untapped market of new fans just waiting to follow the women's game when the time becomes right. To which I say that, sadly, many females are simply not interested in the game. I coached at my son't club and we have girls in mixed teams in every age group up to under 13s but there are only one or two of them. Thinking they may have been put off we tried to start a girls only team. We had about three takers. I

You're missing the point about the chicken and egg. Yes, that's probably the case now - which is why I was talking about other factors involved.

The issue was brought home to me when my kids were little and I went to the Albion shop for babywear. There was a blue tee-shirt that said "When I grow up I want to play for the Albion", there was also a girls shirt (in pink, natch) which said "When I grow up I want to be a footballer's wife." If girls are told from the time when they are sentient beings that football is a game for boys, they're not going to suddenly think it's for girls too when they're 13.

On top of that, we have the issue that 80% of primary school teachers are female (not many of whom will have played the game), so you won't find many proponents of girls football there.

My daughter's rugby club started a girls section three years ago with 15 girls. It's now grown to more than 100 but it's a rise that's been prompted by rugby-playing teachers at schools. If a school doesn't have a champion for girls sport, it won't happen.

Your club is to be applauded for its efforts but clubs can't do it in isolation, there needs to be a complete change in society. It's going to be a long process.

Guinness Boy · Apr 5, 2019

Gwylan said:
You're missing the point about the chicken and egg. Yes, that's probably the case now - which is why I was talking about other factors involved.

The issue was brought home to me when my kids were little and I went to the Albion shop for babywear. There was a blue tee-shirt that said "When I grow up I want to play for the Albion", there was also a girls shirt (in pink, natch) which said "When I grow up I want to be a footballer's wife." If girls are told from the time when they are sentient beings that football is a game for boys, they're not going to suddenly think it's for girls too when they're 13.

Those t-shirts are clearly wrong, and quite depressing. But telling my daughter that football is a game (only) for boys is not something we've ever done as parents. We tried to get her along to training at my son's club, she's done ACE foootball academy sessions with her brother and has racked up half a dozen games at the Amex. She is becoming less and less interested, not more and more. That's not to say she's not in to sport but it's climbing and swimming she enjoys. However, we can only control what goes on at home so.....

On top of that, we have the issue that 80% of primary school teachers are female (not many of whom will have played the game), so you won't find many proponents of girls football there.

My daughter's rugby club started a girls section three years ago with 15 girls. It's now grown to more than 100 but it's a rise that's been prompted by rugby-playing teachers at schools. If a school doesn't have a champion for girls sport, it won't happen.

Your club is to be applauded for its efforts but clubs can't do it in isolation, there needs to be a complete change in society. It's going to be a long process.

Yes, I probably agree with all of that. For all I know she is being discouraged over football by peers and / or teachers at school.

Gwylan · Apr 5, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
But telling my daughter that football is a game (only) for boys is not something we've ever done as parents.

Sorry, I didn't mean imply that you. I'm sure that you hadn't but there are strong messages from outside. You mention peers and that's an important factor too.

Just one small thing but one I noticed buying my daughter's boots on the Sports Direct website. Boots are designated as Men's or Boy's (sometimes Ladies too but never Girls) - what message does that give? And SD aren't alone with this: other rugby sites do it. The persistent message is that these sports aren't for girls - that's what has to change

hart's shirt · Apr 5, 2019

Gwylan said:
It's a small point that you raise but, in the context of growing the women's game, it's an important one. It's one of the reasons why your idea of solely building the game from the bottom up is going to struggle.

I've been involved in girls rugby and one of the big bugbears (borne out by surveys) is the quality of the changing rooms. Very few clubs have dedicated changing rooms and women/girls tend to use male facilities (obviously not when the men are in them!). There are complaints about the lack of mirrors, hairdryers etc,

Many clubs talk about attracting more women (and that's true for rugby, cricket and football) but they're aware that they need to do more for changing facilities but these cost money, which they don't get from subs on their own.

That's why there's a need for some element of subsidy and why women's sport can't grow solely organically. There are other factors too but the idea that women's football will grow from the bottom up is an idealistic one

As you rightly say, dedicated changing rooms will cost smaller clubs money, although those expenses are nothing when it comes to finances in the men's game at the top level.

A few more fittings for extra mirrors and hairdryers to make changing rooms more female-friendly isn't going to bankrupt any Premier League side any time soon.

With the Barclays sponsorship, £500,000 prize money will be divided between WSL teams according to league position each season.

So how sustainable is women's football? And will it always need to be subsidized?

“Ultimately it’s only going to be sustainable if we can get more people aware of the WSL, through the turnstiles and more watching on TV. That is as important, almost more important in some ways, than the cash because that will help clubs long term to attract their own sponsorship deals and get better matchday sales as well as help us with our TV deals which is where most of the men’s money comes from.”
- Kelly Simmons, FA's director of the professional women's game https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/mar/20/barclays-womens-super-league-sponsor-record-deal-uk-fa

TV execs aren't going to want to see empty stands in the grounds, so the attendances will be critical in making the game more attractive and thus more valuable.

Therefore, there's got to be a wholesale improvement in growing the supporter numbers organically to generate an atmosphere.

It's got to be so much better than February's Continental League Cup final between Manchester City and Arsenal which attracted only 2,424 spectators for a cup final.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47294347

hart's shirt · Apr 5, 2019

England 0 Canada 1.

5,682 at the game.

Questions · Apr 5, 2019

Muhammed 'im hard' Bruce Lee said:
Oh well.

I love football, womens football however holds no interest for me.
Same as womens rugby and womens boxing, love both sports but FFS....they are MENS sports.
And womens cricket.

Stick to netball girls

How come men’s netball never gets a mention ? It’s one rule for one..........

goldstone · Apr 6, 2019

Beach Seagull said:
Ha ha love it, you are brave putting that with all the PC liberal types on here. Totally agree with you btw. Most of those who go and watch women's football are probably bored s***less with the match but pat themselves on the back as they are showcasing their PC credentials...........'oh look at me I'm so committed to diversity I go and watch women's football'. The sort of person who would do or watch anything as long as the PC brigade deem it the 'right' thing to do.

Spot on. Why can't women just play women's games? You don't see men invading world netball.

zeetha · Apr 24, 2019

Just bumping this thread to remind people about the Womens match this Sunday at the Amex. Our opponents Arsenal will win the league if they beat us (which to be honest is likely) but I'm sure Hope Powells side will give it a good go.

Kickoff is at 12:15pm and tickets can be obtained as usual from Seagulls Tickets. Each season ticket holder can get TWO FREE tickets (offer runs out at 5pm TODAY), with additional tickets costing just £3.00 for adults and £1 for over 65s and children.

Travel to the ground is not included in the ticket, but you can book transport via Seagulls Travel

Our esteemed chairman would like our support to get a good crowd in : https://www.brightonandhovealbion.c...l-for-support-ahead-of-wsl-clash-at-the-amex/

And England Womens Team manager Phil Neville is also impressed with Brighton : https://www.brightonandhovealbion.c...WkiMzQxu8wUe6WVZDN_KUie6kIKIluzWmD-f7CLuHSzT4

My mums having an operation tomorrow, but as long as shes ok I'll be there and hope there will be a good crowd to cheer the Albion on.

UTA! :albion2:

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 24, 2019

[MENTION=19028]zeetha[/MENTION] any idea if the club shop and/or any of the bars will be open on sunday?

Oh, and good luck with mum's operation :thumbsup:

chimneys · Apr 24, 2019

zeetha said:
Just bumping this thread to remind people about the Womens match this Sunday at the Amex. Our opponents Arsenal will win the league if they beat us (which to be honest is likely) but I'm sure Hope Powells side will give it a good go.

Kickoff is at 12:15pm and tickets can be obtained as usual from Seagulls Tickets. Each season ticket holder can get TWO FREE tickets (offer runs out at 5pm TODAY), with additional tickets costing just £3.00 for adults and £1 for over 65s and children.

Travel to the ground is not included in the ticket, but you can book transport via Seagulls Travel

Our esteemed chairman would like our support to get a good crowd in : https://www.brightonandhovealbion.c...l-for-support-ahead-of-wsl-clash-at-the-amex/

And England Womens Team manager Phil Neville is also impressed with Brighton : https://www.brightonandhovealbion.c...WkiMzQxu8wUe6WVZDN_KUie6kIKIluzWmD-f7CLuHSzT4

My mums having an operation tomorrow, but as long as shes ok I'll be there and hope there will be a good crowd to cheer the Albion on.

UTA!

Fingers crossed for your Mum's op, and for the Albion women on Sunday Zeetha!!

amexer · Apr 24, 2019

Assume all ST holders plus 1901s received letter from Bloom about game and asking to attend for free. This is an expensive way to hopefully get a good crowd.. Do you know what the estimate is

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[Albion] Brighton Women Final Home Game this season to be staged at the Amex on 28th April

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