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[Football] Matchday travel subsidy?



Super Steve Earle

Super Steve Earle

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
8,364
North of Brighton
The Oldman said:
As said in a previous post in this day and age we should do everything to discourage car journeys and therefore to give every incentive to use trains, buses , and coaches. I would go back to charging for parking on the P & R sites.

I am quite happy to pay for using Seagull Travel as it is a great service and by allowing ST vehicles free parking at the Amex, which is so convenient for ST passengers , the club is subsidising that service. Don't expect them to do more.
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Surely P & R does discourage cars by making it more attractive to stay out of town and the vicinity of the stadium. Stick a charge on it and fans will instinctively try and find parking spaces nearer the ground. Besides, do you honestly think fans aren't paying for the complimentary P & R in the ticket prices to some degree?

Your first paragraph seems contradictory from one end to the other.
 






S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,741
dazzer6666 said:
Not sure it’s poor management of the service, more simply practical management.....simply can’t see how that would work.

I suspect the vast majority take at least some advantage of the ‘included’ transport (train or P&R), those that don’t (me included - I drive, park and walk) just accept the ticket price includes a small element to cover transport costs - it’s my choice not to use it. Anyone using a private coach company (for their own convenience) shouldn’t have a further subsidy paid by the club IMO. I don’t expect the club to subsidise my petrol costs when I choose not to use the included transport options.

Offering a non-levied STH option wouldn’t be practical - can’t reasonably be checked on match days, plenty of occasional users etc.
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As previously stated, it's easily practicable by segmenting your customers. If you drive the segmentation through the lists provided by the external companies then it's really easy to manage that aspect - after all, it's only this group that are losing their subsidy. By using the list of people who have paid for full STs on these buses, you're also cutting out those who only sporadically use the external bus companies.

Regards your point about petrol, it's a tad nonsensical. People such as myself aren't really being given an option to use the systems put in place because they're either not practical, too far away, unsuitable for the amount of people that require the services or not properly managed to allow them to be effective. In essence, I have to put a whole day aside to go to a home football match if I use any of their transport systems. That simply isn't sustainable for anyone with a) a life or b) who works on some weekends.

With regards to you believing that the club shouldn't have a further subsidy paid by the club, the alternative argument is that I (and many others) don't use the subsidy they offer to the rest of the supporters, so shouldn't have to pay for it. In no other business would you expect customers who aren't using a service to pay for it.

Lastly, most clubs don't offer a levied ST. So the argument that it isn't practical to offer one that isn't levied seems a tad misguided. Ultimately it comes down to finances for the club and they've decided that they're happy to piss off the customers that pay the most to get to games to make a quick extra buck.

Basically, I think we'll agree to disagree :albion2:
 


Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,865
Brighton
sussex_guy2k2 said:
As previously stated, it's easily practicable by segmenting your customers. If you drive the segmentation through the lists provided by the external companies then it's really easy to manage that aspect - after all, it's only this group that are losing their subsidy. By using the list of people who have paid for full STs on these buses, you're also cutting out those who only sporadically use the external bus companies.
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I'm not sure this really answers the point. The practicality issue isn't about giving giving different colour season ticket cards to different fans based on whether they use seagulls travel, public transport, or walk/cycle. Or giving certain people season tickets without a levy. That is quite simple.

The issue is with the thousands of fans who travel by train, and the issue of checking the season ticket of every single one of them, without causing travel delays, half empty trains leaving the station, etc. With one-off ticket buyers who maybe haven't decided how they will be travelling when they buy their ticket adding to the travellers. The rail companies won't want to just hire lots of staff to keep the crowd moving without extra compensation from the club, who probably wouldn't see it as a necessity when the current system is adequate for them and the overwhelming majority of fans. That is a problem that your system would introduce and you seem to have not been able to provide a suitable solution for - the congestion at train stations as they check people have the right type of ticket.
 


A

amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,209
I have been to dozens of away games and so often treated as weekend away to see another part of country. Our wives have nearly without exception dropped us of very near ground and we meet up later. What has to be remembered is the Amex is in the the sticks and a pain to get to. Appreciate Seagull Travel is a private company but when Amex opened club felt the need to get them on board as a partner to assist in getting supporters to ground. That need is still there as so many cannot get to or cope with trains. As far as PR is concerned I can only speak from coming from West and unless you get to Mill Rd hour and half/two hours before game you have to travel to other side of Brighton to race course. (would help if Sainsbury PR was permanent ) I do think Seagulls travel is an essential service and if it wasnt there present systems would have a job to cope. Understand Seagull Travel sts have gone up by about £50.and because of this 20% have not renewed. Would be interesting if club disclosed figures but if we estimate 2500 use this service x £50 is costing club about £125k. Peanuts compared to our vast income now and consider it penny pinching by club
 




W

Worthing exile

New member
May 12, 2009
1,219
Surprised there is no official P&R from Lancing Training Ground. I would be interested and would pay a notional amount for a guaranteed seat/ST.
 


dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,479
Burgess Hill
Acker79 said:
I'm not sure this really answers the point. The practicality issue isn't about giving giving different colour season ticket cards to different fans based on whether they use seagulls travel, public transport, or walk/cycle. Or giving certain people season tickets without a levy. That is quite simple.

The issue is with the thousands of fans who travel by train, and the issue of checking the season ticket of every single one of them, without causing travel delays, half empty trains leaving the station, etc. With one-off ticket buyers who maybe haven't decided how they will be travelling when they buy their ticket adding to the travellers. The rail companies won't want to just hire lots of staff to keep the crowd moving without extra compensation from the club, who probably wouldn't see it as a necessity when the current system is adequate for them and the overwhelming majority of fans. That is a problem that your system would introduce and you seem to have not been able to provide a suitable solution for - the congestion at train stations as they check people have the right type of ticket.
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Thanks - I’ve given up trying to make that point, I’ll let you have a go......[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
 


S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,741
Acker79 said:
I'm not sure this really answers the point. The practicality issue isn't about giving giving different colour season ticket cards to different fans based on whether they use seagulls travel, public transport, or walk/cycle. Or giving certain people season tickets without a levy. That is quite simple.

The issue is with the thousands of fans who travel by train, and the issue of checking the season ticket of every single one of them, without causing travel delays, half empty trains leaving the station, etc. With one-off ticket buyers who maybe haven't decided how they will be travelling when they buy their ticket adding to the travellers. The rail companies won't want to just hire lots of staff to keep the crowd moving without extra compensation from the club, who probably wouldn't see it as a necessity when the current system is adequate for them and the overwhelming majority of fans. That is a problem that your system would introduce and you seem to have not been able to provide a suitable solution for - the congestion at train stations as they check people have the right type of ticket.
Click to expand...

But they're not checking tickets anyway so there's literally no way of checking how much the train systems or club are losing out on; in this regard, you're talking of managing the masses, whereas I'm talking about managing the minority who need to use the coach system and whose names are clearly identifiable by lists held by those companies. What we do know is that there are groups of supporters who are being double charged to get to games. And there is an easy way of not double charging them because you take the list of names off of each company for all of the people that have bought ST off of them. Once you've done that, you reimburse that £50 subsidy per person. You don't even need to deal with the others who can't quantify how they're getting to games.
 




S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,741
amexer said:
I have been to dozens of away games and so often treated as weekend away to see another part of country. Our wives have nearly without exception dropped us of very near ground and we meet up later. What has to be remembered is the Amex is in the the sticks and a pain to get to. Appreciate Seagull Travel is a private company but when Amex opened club felt the need to get them on board as a partner to assist in getting supporters to ground. That need is still there as so many cannot get to or cope with trains. As far as PR is concerned I can only speak from coming from West and unless you get to Mill Rd hour and half/two hours before game you have to travel to other side of Brighton to race course. (would help if Sainsbury PR was permanent ) I do think Seagulls travel is an essential service and if it wasnt there present systems would have a job to cope. Understand Seagull Travel sts have gone up by about £50.and because of this 20% have not renewed. Would be interesting if club disclosed figures but if we estimate 2500 use this service x £50 is costing club about £125k. Peanuts compared to our vast income now and consider it penny pinching by club
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Nailed it. I honestly struggle to see why so many people aren't getting this. In simple terms, most people within the Brighton area pay £50 a season for travel. We pay £50 + the cost of the coach per season. And now that cost has gone up because the club don't want to subsidise us, whilst everyone else keeps the same cost of travel. It really isn't a good look for the club.

And, like you say, the logistics of adding another 2500 people into their current systems really doesn't countenance thinking about - they're terribly managed and under staffed as it is.
 


dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,479
Burgess Hill
sussex_guy2k2 said:
Nailed it. I honestly struggle to see why so many people aren't getting this. In simple terms, most people within the Brighton area pay £50 a season for travel. We pay £50 + the cost of the coach per season. And now that cost has gone up because the club don't want to subsidise us, whilst everyone else keeps the same cost of travel. It really isn't a good look for the club.

And, like you say, the logistics of adding another 2500 people into their current systems really doesn't countenance thinking about - they're terribly managed and under staffed as it is.
Click to expand...

Thousands of fans pay the £50 and don’t get full value from it - even those that use the P&R still have the cost of getting there.

I see ST as more of a ‘luxury’ (I have used it, so I know this doesn’t apply to all the buses [emoji16])option for greater convenience run by a commercial outfit, so not sure why the club should subsidise it when they are already helping with either rail or P&R travel.
 


BNthree

BNthree

Plastic JCL
Sep 14, 2016
10,908
WeHo
Worthing exile said:
Surprised there is no official P&R from Lancing Training Ground. I would be interested and would pay a notional amount for a guaranteed seat/ST.
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Given how small the car park is there I'm not surprised. However there is definitely a need for a P&R to the west of Brighton such as the Portslade Sainsburys or from Shoreham airport.
 






hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,338
Chandlers Ford
sussex_guy2k2 said:
Nailed it. I honestly struggle to see why so many people aren't getting this. In simple terms, most people within the Brighton area pay £50 a season for travel. We pay £50 + the cost of the coach per season. And now that cost has gone up because the club don't want to subsidise us, whilst everyone else keeps the same cost of travel. It really isn't a good look for the club.

And, like you say, the logistics of adding another 2500 people into their current systems really doesn't countenance thinking about - they're terribly managed and under staffed as it is.
Click to expand...

Why does this 2500 figure come from?

What makes people who use the private company Seagulls Travel to get to the game from locations outside of the travel zone, any different to the hundreds / thousands of others who live (further) outside the zone and use other private companies, or their own cars, to get to the games? My travel costs plenty more than your Seagulls Travel ST, I can assure you, and nobody has ever offered to subsidise that.
 


H

HAILSHAM SEAGULL

Well-known member
Nov 9, 2009
10,347
sussex_guy2k2 said:
But they're not checking tickets anyway so there's literally no way of checking how much the train systems or club are losing out on; in this regard, you're talking of managing the masses, whereas I'm talking about managing the minority who need to use the coach system and whose names are clearly identifiable by lists held by those companies. What we do know is that there are groups of supporters who are being double charged to get to games. And there is an easy way of not double charging them because you take the list of names off of each company for all of the people that have bought ST off of them. Once you've done that, you reimburse that £50 subsidy per person. You don't even need to deal with the others who can't quantify how they're getting to games.
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What would you do if Seagull Travel were not running a service?
You would have the option to drive to the nearest station or bus route or drive to the Park and Ride as many fans do from no doubt further away than you without a subsidy.
You are not forced to use Seagull Travel, i'm not but I choose the higher prices option cos I want to support my team and Seagull Travel suits my needs.
 




T

timbha

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
9,903
Sussex
HAILSHAM SEAGULL said:
What would you do if Seagull Travel were not running a service?
You would have the option to drive to the nearest station or bus route or drive to the Park and Ride as many fans do from no doubt further away than you without a subsidy.
You are not forced to use Seagull Travel, i'm not but I choose the higher prices option cos I want to support my team and Seagull Travel suits my needs.
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Who said you could bring common sense to this thread?
 






Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,749
Back in Sussex
hans kraay fan club said:
Why does this 2500 figure come from?

What makes people who use the private company Seagulls Travel to get to the game from locations outside of the travel zone, any different to the hundreds / thousands of others who live (further) outside the zone and use other private companies, or their own cars, to get to the games? .
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The club said they were. For eight years.
 




N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
hans kraay fan club said:
Why does this 2500 figure come from?

What makes people who use the private company Seagulls Travel to get to the game from locations outside of the travel zone, any different to the hundreds / thousands of others who live (further) outside the zone and use other private companies, or their own cars, to get to the games? My travel costs plenty more than your Seagulls Travel ST, I can assure you, and nobody has ever offered to subsidise that.
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Quite. Maybe the club could order taxis to pick us exiles up from home.
Or perhaps the other poster could appreciate the club subsidizing him whilst it lasted. He is an exile as well if he doesn’t live within the travel zone. If he lives within but is simply choosing not to use the subsidy then that’s his choice.
 




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