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[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament



Dick Swiveller

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2011
9,142
rocket scientise

Much as I agree with the sentiment of your post, I couldn't help myself. :)

irony-meter.jpg
 


BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,317
What a contribution again BLOCK F, you really are the board's Umberto Eco.

Oh BS, don't be so pathetic.
I am lying in my sickbed at the moment feeling rather unwell and quite frankly have got neither the energy nor inclination to enter into a long discourse with you or anybody else.
You don't like me because I don't agree with you, just leave it at that, shall we?
 
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Stato

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2011
6,528
I saw Frank Skinner play in Brighton some years back and he suggested that West Brom's fortunes were linked to thsoe of the Labour Party: good in the seventies, dropped in the eighties to rise again in the late nineties. He joked that given our solitary period of success in the early eighties, Brighton's fortunes might be similarly linked to the SDP.

Okay, the government's in disarray and instead of looking like a feasible alternative, the opposition is destroying itself, the union is breaking up, the economy is heading into a hole and the country is turning into the stagnating isolationist China of the 15th century, but let's get our priorities right: We're gonna win the cup!
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,008
Burgess Hill
It'll be interesting to see if any Tories now resign from the party. Think I'd be surprised but for there to be real change they need to follow suit.

That would put the cat amongst the pigeons but I doubt they will have the balls to do it as it would effectively bring down the government. Only 7 so far and I hope there is a good reaction but they will need another 15/20 to join them to get some momentum (for want of a better phrase) to make a difference.
 


JCL666

absurdism
Sep 23, 2011
2,190
I can’t understand why they don’t just join the party that already exists and seems a good fit for them all - the Liberal Democrats. Is it for the same reasons the SDP didn’t do the same (nobody would notice)?

I’ve never understood why so many slightly left of centre politicians think the Lib Dem’s aren’t the party for them and try to make the left wing Labour Party change to suit them.

Previously I would have agreed, but unfortunately the Lib Dems totally screwed themselves by going into coalition and taking the fall for a number of the policies.

They probably don't want to be associated with that.
 




1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,185
Tory boy Chuka Umunna to lead the new lot no doubt. Good riddance.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,265
That would put the cat amongst the pigeons but I doubt they will have the balls to do it as it would effectively bring down the government. Only 7 so far and I hope there is a good reaction but they will need another 15/20 to join them to get some momentum (for want of a better phrase) to make a difference.

until something resembling a party is formed, an outline manifesto to start with, this is just some Labour MPs unhappy with their leadership, nothing something any Tory MP would leave for.
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
A day to celebrate Splitters...

 




Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,921
Uckfield
Seeing a lot of Corbyn supporters (and Corbyn himself) citing the last GE as evidence that he's doing a good job and thus that the 7 who have resigned are somehow wrong to do so.

Unfortunately, Corbyn/Labour increasing their vote share in that GE has a lot more to do with how poorly May / the Tories are doing in Government than anything Corbyn may or may not have done.

I'm hoping this splinter group proves to be a catalyst for some genuine change in UK politics, as the political landscape here has been FUBAR ever since the Lib Dems (wrongly) took the blame from voters for the Tory austerity policies. We have a political system currently where the party of the right has been pulled too far right (initially in fear of UKIP, more latterly in fear of their home-grown ERG sub-party), and the party of the left is too far left. And both parties are being headed up by incompetent politicians, which has resulted in the current political debate being mostly framed by backbenchers and the unelected press.
 


abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,028
Would love to see a new party somewhere near the centre ground but crucially with new faces with a fresh approach. Somehow neither Labour or the Tories will allow it to happen but it would give us all hope for the future
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
Seeing a lot of Corbyn supporters (and Corbyn himself) citing the last GE as evidence that he's doing a good job and thus that the 7 who have resigned are somehow wrong to do so.
It's not like they have anything else to cling to, so their great success is that they didn't lose by as much as was expected.

We've never had such poor options on the ballot paper.
 




Sussex Nomad

Well-known member
Aug 26, 2010
18,185
EP
We've never had such poor options on the ballot paper.

Jobbing politicians, cocooned in their own world, where greed is the player. They don't, won't and can't vote for their constituents, they never do. There is no such thing as democracy when politicians vote for themselves. Sadly, this has always been the case. Agree with what I've quoted above.
 


KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
19,693
Wolsingham, County Durham
Angela Smith just said on Politics Live that she had to tell her constituents that JC had no chance of winning the last election so they should not be afraid to vote Labour, as many of them had expressed severe reservations about JC becoming PM. Laura Kuenssberg then confirmed this by saying that this is the first time this had been spoken about openly by an MP, but she is aware of several other Labour MPs who had to do something similar in the last election.
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
I think the best comparison I have seen so far is that the 'Seven' are like Geri Halliwell - overestimating their viability away from the rest. Even though apparently she had a couple of big hits afterwards.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 25, 2011
63,407
Withdean area
That's very true, but there are other influences though, not just parental. I actually read all 3 manifestos in 2017, came to the conclusion that The Liberal Democrats was the one I most agreed with/liked, and subsequently voted Labour for the first time since 1997 primarily simply because I don't like (to put it politely) The Conservative and Unionist Party or The Right Honourable Amber Rudd. and that's from someone who reluctantly voted Tory in 2001 and 2015 too.

I had a look at all the main manifestos for a couple of elections (the sanitised online versions with bullet points). I’ve voted for Lucas, (Blair) in 1997 and Tory.

Sadly the vast majority of voters fall for the propaganda of their parents, school/uni teachers and media. Not said as an anti Labour dig, the deliberate tarring of all parties with falsehoods and exaggerations cuts across the entire spectrum.
 


studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,555
On the Border
I think the best comparison I have seen so far is that the 'Seven' are like Geri Halliwell - overestimating their viability away from the rest. Even though apparently she had a couple of big hits afterwards.

Four number one singles, eight top ten singles and two top ten albums, which on that basis would indicate some success for at least a short period of time.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,341
Faversham
What a contribution again BLOCK F, you really are the board's Umberto Eco.

I'll chip in with some elucidation. [MENTION=13368]BLOCK F[/MENTION] can correct me if I'm wrong:

'record membership' of half a million means that every left winger has been able to join, and will stay joined because it gives the left absolute control over the constitution and who becomes labour leader. The checks and balances that allowed any lefty to join were not there. Corbyn cannot be removed by the democratic processes in the labour party now. And they were created by Ed Milliband. Having a big membership is irrelevant - half a million is a tiny fraction of the electorate, and yet it probably includes 90% of the nation's fervant Corbyn supporters. This is why....

The failure of labour to defeat Mrs May was a disgrace. Yes, it was an enormous success for Corbyn, but only because everyone expected Corbyn to do worse than he did. He still led labour to defeat in an election any half decent labour leader would have absolutely walked.

I recall after the last election Corbyn supporters interviewed on the radio describeing the result as a victory. Righty ho. Like our victory agains Burnley recently.

'No compromise with the electorate'.

You apparent denial of these basic truths is why [MENTION=13368]BLOCK F[/MENTION] called you, deluded I suspect.I'll be more generous and say 'overy optimistic'......
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,730
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
I think the best comparison I have seen so far is that the 'Seven' are like Geri Halliwell - overestimating their viability away from the rest. Even though apparently she had a couple of big hits afterwards.

Very nice they were too. As well as having a couple of big hits, she also had 4 UK No.1's.

Geri+Haliwell+Geri+Halliwell+Henry+Beckwith+NAXX3hfHMiEl.jpg
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,341
Faversham
A day to celebrate Splitters...



Except one suspects that Chuka Umunna differs from Corbyn somewhat more than the people's front of Judea differ from the popular front of Judea....
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
I'll chip in with some elucidation. [MENTION=13368]BLOCK F[/MENTION] can correct me if I'm wrong:

'record membership' of half a million means that every left winger has been able to join, and will stay joined because it gives the left absolute control over the constitution and who becomes labour leader. The checks and balances that allowed any lefty to join were not there. Corbyn cannot be removed by the democratic processes in the labour party now. And they were created by Ed Milliband. Having a big membership is irrelevant - half a million is a tiny fraction of the electorate, and yet it probably includes 90% of the nation's fervant Corbyn supporters. This is why....

The failure of labour to defeat Mrs May was a disgrace. Yes, it was an enormous success for Corbyn, but only because everyone expected Corbyn to do worse than he did. He still led labour to defeat in an election any half decent labour leader would have absolutely walked.

I recall after the last election Corbyn supporters interviewed on the radio describeing the result as a victory. Righty ho. Like our victory agains Burnley recently.

'No compromise with the electorate'.

You apparent denial of these basic truths is why [MENTION=13368]BLOCK F[/MENTION] called you, deluded I suspect.I'll be more generous and say 'overy optimistic'......

What you and [MENTION=13368]BLOCK F[/MENTION] have both missed is that I wasn't extolling the virtues of Corbyn's Labour, I was merely countering the post that said he was the worst party leader in living memory.

You've both extrapolated that into me saying it was some great success, I wasn't, but neither was it the worst lperformance in living memory. My post was that simple in reply to another assertion.

There was nothing I said to be deluded about. The two of you both need to read posts in their context without jumping to conclusions you've bought to the table yourselves.
 



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