[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

Bevendean Hillbilly said:

I was in Norway last year on business and, for my money, their system of welfare seems so goddamned....fair.

If you have paid in all your working life, but then need to take something out, you are compensated based on what your TOTAL Contribution has been rather than what you can expect as a new arrival or deliberately slack citizen.

Tax revenue isn’t spunked the second it appears on a balance sheet but everyone who pays in has a protected income for a year if they close your factory or whatever...therefore homelessness is almost nil among workers who get laid off etc.

Contrast this with us. You pay a million pounds in tax but if your job goes, sorry mate, you’re in the queue with Shamima Begum and whoever else needs a few quid.

If this new group was talking like that. I’d listen, and so would a million others.

Click to expand...

Basically, you’re suggesting that access to welfare funding should be means tested.

What’s the point in having a welfare system at all, if that’s your philosophy? Why don’t all the people able to pay so much in, just keep it all?

midnight_rendezvous said:

Research has shown new-build housing completions in England between 2010 and 2019 are set to be approximately 130,000 per year. That is significantly lower than the 147,000 of the 2000s or 150,000 of the 1990s, and half of the level seen in the 1960s and 1970s.

The UK had the weakest wage growth of any G7 country over the past decade, according to the OECD, despite eight years of economic growth and strong employment. Wages are still worth a third less in some parts of the country than a decade ago, according to several reports.


Research undertaken in December 2018 by by SMC and JRF revealed that, in our society:*

- Child poverty has been rising since 2011/12;*
- 4.1 million children are living in*poverty, a rise of 500,000 in the last five years;*
- Four million workers are living*in poverty –a rise of more than half a million over five years; and*
- In-work poverty has been rising even faster than employment, driven almost entirely by increasing poverty among working parents.*
-
Even the UN has been forced to look at the levels of extreme poverty in our country.

So no, it’s not ‘porkies’ in the slightest. Sometimes I despair at the mindless gullibility that allows people to continually fall for the austerity con.

Even after 9 years of economic ruination, wage repression, spectacularly missed targets, massive public service cuts, councils going bankrupt, deliberate under-investment in infrastructure, and collapsing living standards, people are willing to mindlessly let the government off the hook or simply pretend it isn’t happening

Click to expand...

You claimed 'House building at lowest levels since 1920’s' ... NOT TRUE and your non-attributed quotes/numbers don't even back up your initial claim.

You claimed 'Wages were in decline' NOT TRUE they are increasing.

You claimed 'Child poverty was at a record high'. NOT TRUE and your non-attributed quotes/numbers don't even back up your initial claim.

I am perfectly aware of the numerous failings of the current and previous governments policies as I am aware of you being economical with the truth. For mindless gullibility see people who think the shameful clusterf**k of an opposition are in any way a government in waiting or have any credible answers.

Bevendean Hillbilly said:

I was in Norway last year on business and, for my money, their system of welfare seems so goddamned....fair.

If you have paid in all your working life, but then need to take something out, you are compensated based on what your TOTAL Contribution has been rather than what you can expect as a new arrival or deliberately slack citizen.

Tax revenue isn’t spunked the second it appears on a balance sheet but everyone who pays in has a protected income for a year if they close your factory or whatever...therefore homelessness is almost nil among workers who get laid off etc.

Contrast this with us. You pay a million pounds in tax but if your job goes, sorry mate, you’re in the queue with Shamima Begum and whoever else needs a few quid.

If this new group was talking like that. I’d listen, and so would a million others.

Click to expand...

Is this a serious post?

Bevendean Hillbilly said:

I was in Norway last year on business and, for my money, their system of welfare seems so goddamned....fair.

If you have paid in all your working life, but then need to take something out, you are compensated based on what your TOTAL Contribution has been rather than what you can expect as a new arrival or deliberately slack citizen.

Tax revenue isn’t spunked the second it appears on a balance sheet but everyone who pays in has a protected income for a year if they close your factory or whatever...therefore homelessness is almost nil among workers who get laid off etc.

Contrast this with us. You pay a million pounds in tax but if your job goes, sorry mate, you’re in the queue with Shamima Begum and whoever else needs a few quid.

If this new group was talking like that. I’d listen, and so would a million others.

Click to expand...

Norway is always incomparable to any country, bar Kuwait, Saudi etc. Their government is sitting on a real fund of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS, from 50 years of oil/gas revenues for a tiny 5 million population. Need to leave them of fiscal discussions.

The UK should provide a safety net for the sick, vulnerable, truly disabled, mentally ill in society. We can afford that.

hans kraay fan club said:

Basically, you’re suggesting that access to welfare funding should be means tested.

What’s the point in having a welfare system at all, if that’s your philosophy? Why don’t all the people able to pay so much in, just keep it all?

Click to expand...

No.

I’m saying that access to welfare should be based on contribution.


Not means.

Bevendean Hillbilly said:

No.

I’m saying that access to welfare should be based on contribution.


Not means.

Click to expand...

Of course it is being means tested. If you have the means to contribute you get benefits and if you don't have the means to contribute you are left to flounder. That isn't a welfare system, that is a savings scheme!!!

Bevendean Hillbilly said:

No.

I’m saying that access to welfare should be based on contribution.


Not means.

Click to expand...

But some disabled, mentally ill, etc folk never get the chance to contribute in the first place.

Seems that other countries such as Finland, Sweden and Denmark can afford better social provision than us and they are not sitting on loads of oil.

Bevendean Hillbilly said:

No.

I’m saying that access to welfare should be based on contribution.


Not means.

Click to expand...

I’m really struggling with your logic.

So somebody growing up in an affluent area with near total employment ‘deserves’ better access to welfare services, than his peers in say Teeside, for example, where they are inevitably going to be in and out of low paid jobs?

Bevendean Hillbilly said:

I was in Norway last year on business and, for my money, their system of welfare seems so goddamned....fair.

If you have paid in all your working life, but then need to take something out, you are compensated based on what your TOTAL Contribution has been rather than what you can expect as a new arrival or deliberately slack citizen.

Tax revenue isn’t spunked the second it appears on a balance sheet but everyone who pays in has a protected income for a year if they close your factory or whatever...therefore homelessness is almost nil among workers who get laid off etc.

Contrast this with us. You pay a million pounds in tax but if your job goes, sorry mate, you’re in the queue with Shamima Begum and whoever else needs a few quid.

If this new group was talking like that. I’d listen, and so would a million others.

Click to expand...

Norway is a far richer, smaller country than the U.K. Consequently it has far less issues than the UK. It’s not a fair comparison.

We certainly need to take better care of people who are made redundant in the U.K. We seem to be able to give fatcats huge payouts when they do something to cause their own downfall and get sacked or “step down”.

The Clamp said:

We certainly need to take better care of people who are made redundant in the U.K. We seem to be able to give fatcats huge payouts when they do something to cause their own downfall and get sacked or “step down”.

Click to expand...

I read an article last week (by a successful entrepreneur) that many of Europe and North America’s senior directors (large listed companies), now earn 5 to 10 times in real terms that of their predecessors a few decades back. For essentially doing a similar job. He thought that was wrong.

(It wasn’t aimed at the UK - he was a Frenchman critical of this in the free World per se).

I’m not sure what the solution is in a global business world. Sky high tax in the UK alone would drive people out, but also catch people who’ve done really well in their own small companies. Many of which are good bosses.

The Clamp said:

We certainly need to take better care of people who are made redundant in the U.K. We seem to be able to give fatcats huge payouts when they do something to cause their own downfall and get sacked or “step down”.

Click to expand...

They all seem to be in the same cliche and work their way around the top jobs and get huge pay offs when they cock up. The poor coal face worker just gets shoved out on their arse end off.

Who knew so many posters on NSC had such an in-depth knowledge of Norway's welfare system.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:

Don't believe that Joan Ryan left the Labour Party solely because of Brexit - her comments below with regards to a "culture of anti-Jewish racism" might enlighten you as to why she left.

But you keep your head buried in the sand and continue to claim there is no problem.

She was on Today this morning and her attack on Corbyn was incredibly scathing.



Joan Ryan has become the eighth Labour MP to quit the party in the past 48 hours, citing its tolerance of a "culture of anti-Jewish racism".

The Enfield North MP said she was "horrified, appalled and angered" by Labour's failure to tackle anti-Semitism, saying its leadership allowed "Jews to be abused with impunity".

Ms Ryan said she did not believe Jeremy Corbyn was fit to lead the country.

Seven other MPs quit on Monday to form the Independent Group in Parliament.

Click to expand...

Joan 'caught on film talking about taking £1 000 000 bribes, caught on film manufacturing false claims of anti semitism, about to be de-selected' Ryan. I hope she rocks up in your constituency so that you have a chance to have this pillar of integrity as your MP.

The Merry Prankster said:

Joan 'caught on film talking about taking £1 000 000 bribes, caught on film manufacturing false claims of anti semitism, about to be de-selected' Ryan. I hope she rocks up in your constituency so that you have a chance to have this pillar of integrity as your MP.

Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47385108

More of the same at a Momentum meeting.

Tom Watson next... he certainly seems to be having one last go at draining the swamp... but he is up against it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47425319

Two of Labour's most senior figures have clashed over how to handle anti-Semitism within the party.

General secretary Jennie Formby accused deputy leader Tom Watson of "completely unacceptable" behaviour for asking that complaints about anti-Semitism be forwarded to him for monitoring.

She said his approach would "undermine" and "pollute" existing party processes.

Mr Watson stood by his request, saying "opacity and delay" by the party had led to "a complete loss of trust".

The Labour Party has been dealing with complaints of anti-Semitism over the last two years.

Mr Watson's original intervention came after nine MPs quit the Labour Party last month citing the party's failure to tackle anti-Semitism as one of the reasons.

Mr Watson emailed all Labour MPs and peers telling them he would be "logging and monitoring" complaints of anti-Semitic abuse and bullying.

'No transparency'
Ms Formby then wrote to him, copying in all Labour parliamentarians.

She told him: "It is absolutely inappropriate for you to set up a vague parallel complaints monitoring system."

Ms Formby said that he and the party had "very strict responsibilities" to safeguard members' data under GPDR and data protection laws and asked for complaints not to be sent to Mr Watson "or any unauthorised individual".

She added: "Furthermore, you will undermine the work that my staff and I are doing and will confuse and pollute the existing formal process, compromising it and slowing it down."

Mr Watson responded: "The constant concern of those complaining about anti-Semitism in our party is that there is no transparency about the process.

"Too often those who have suffered anti-Semitic abuse have not heard anything about the outcome of their complaint.

"It is my responsibility as deputy leader of the Labour Party to ensure people have confidence in our complaints system and our ability to deal transparently with the scourge of anti-Semitism.

"I will continue to do everything I can to achieve that."

Catherine McKinnell, Labour MP for Newcastle upon Tyne, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I, for one, have hugely welcomed Tom's intervention in this."

She said the current complaints system had a "huge amount of trust to rebuild", and that too many complaints "just seem to disappear".

"Nobody knows what the outcome of the complaint has been, nobody knows what the process has been," Ms McKinnell said, adding: "The figures don't match up. So I think there does need to be some oversight."

Jewish members 'distressed'
It comes as members in Diane Abbott's Hackney North constituency issued a motion against MPs who "slander the party" by claiming it is "institutionally anti-Semitic".

Labour's Stella Creasy, who represents the neighbouring London constituency of Walthamstow, said the motion was "disgraceful" and called on Ms Formby to investigate the local party.

She tweeted: "What on earth is going on... that such a motion can be put forward?"

Sheffield Hallam members backed a similar motion and called for the reinstatement of MP Chris Williamson, who was suspended by the party last week for saying Labour had "given too much ground" in the face of criticism over anti-Semitism.

Brent councillor Neil Nerva, a member of the Jewish Labour Movement, said colleagues at the meeting in Hackney North had said shadow home secretary Ms Abbott was present.

He said Jewish members were "distressed" that the MP did not comment on the motion being voted on, adding: "Now to me, that is becoming a bystander. I don't know whether Diane felt intimidated about standing up and saying what was being done."

Ms Abbott has not responded to questions about the meeting.

He is taking a right battering on Twitter this morning... he seems to have hit a nerve.

So, is this anti-Semitism against Jewish people, the religion or against the Israeli State? Has it been made clear what its about? Ive not seen anything but the words ..anti-Semitism..
tbf, ive not really looked into it that much but I for one would like it, if its made a bit clearer.

Titanic said:

He is taking a right battering on Twitter this morning... he seems to have hit a nerve.

Click to expand...

i suspect thats his intent, to make a stand and flush out those that want the problem to quietly go away. timing perfect with Hackney story showing that some want to hide the issue.