[Albion] Hughton supporters

El Presidente said:

I think Warnock has topped that with his Emiliano Sala hypocrisy.

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I agree! I think the whole Sala thing is sickening - virtually claiming that they would be top of the league if he had arrived, and refusing to pay for him at the same time.

If you look at the record of clubs promoted from the Championship and how long they last in the PL you will find that some go straight back down - some survive and go down after a second season.

2017-2018
Newcastle United
Brighton & Hove Albion
Huddersfield Town

all three stay up - Huddersfield relegated in season 2

2016-2017
Burnley
Middlesbrough
Hull City

Middlesborough and Hull go straight back down.

2015-2016
Bournemouth
Watford
Norwich City

Norwich go straight back down

2014-2015
Leicester City
Burnley
Queens Park Rangers

Burnley and QPR go straight back down

2013-2014
Cardiff City
Hull City
Crystal Palace

Cardiff go straight back down and Hull go down after season 2

This situation is repeated over and over again.

Hughton has done a remarkable job keeping Brighton in the PL for two seasons (assuming Cardiff don't win their last two games) - and it is remarkable. Brighton have been prudent with their spending - compare with Fulham who spent over £100million and still got relegated. Brighton are a small club and do not have a tradition of playing in the top flight - yet Hughton has succeeded in keeping the club up against all odds.

The longer a club stays in the PL the better chance they have of not getting relegated - it could happen but the odds are lower. The club can consolidate their squad - attract better players and have more stability. It should not be underestimated the difficulty clubs near the bottom of the PL have in attracting players who are good enough. Generally you get mercenaries who are attempting to get as much money as possible - and that puts clubs in a financial hole. Clubs like Brighton need three things - 1. a solid defence (something that Hughton has been building) - 2. speed, in midfield in order to counter attack (something Hughton has tried to get) - 3. a proven goalscorer who will net 15-20 goals a season - or two in the 10-15 range (Brighton have been relying on Murray for two seasons now - and at 35 he won't last much longer - indeed the slide occurred as Murray's goals dried up).

It should not be underestimated the difficulty every team in the PL has in finding a goalscorer. If you ignore the top six clubs - then Vardy has 18 - Wilson has 14 (and King on 11) - Jimenez has 13 - Everton have two with 13 - Milivojević has 12 - Barnes has 11 (and Wood has 10) - as does Murray, Perez and Mitrović. Either you find someone like Vardy who will net near 20 goals or you find two goalscorers who will get more than ten each (ideally n the 13-15 range). If you can do that then you will finish mid-table - if you can't you are in a relegation dog-fight. The problem is that every PL team is looking for goalscorers - and many continental clubs are too - and they cost an absolute fortune.

So criticise Hughton's style of play all you want - but he kept the club up (and with a squad that struggled - and that shouldn't be a surprise). Hughton was sacked by Norwich when they were above bottom three - and they were relegated - Hughton claimed he could have kept them up. I think he would have - because he would have ground out the odd point here and there to survive. Next season he has to go out and find probably two strikers - plus other players to strengthen the squad. Brighton probably need to spend another £100million (although there are some players that could and should be sold) - and that will be in order just to stand still. With a bit of luck one of these players will produce big-time and bring the rest of the team with them. Then if you can hit on a couple of academy players (and because I take an interest in Irish players - I've been impressed by both Jayson Molumby and Matt Everitt when they have played for Ireland) - you help build a deep squad without spending £millions on transfer fees.

It is not that long ago people on here were saying that even if Brighton were relegated Hughton should be kept as manager - how times have changed when a few results go the wrong way. I don't know if Hughton would be able to keep Brighton in the PL next season - but he does know what is needed - he proved that at Newcastle - at Norwich and at Brighton over the last two seasons. I will make one prediction - if Hughton is sacked, no matter who is hired to replace him, I would put on a substantial bet that Brighton will be relegated at the end of 2019-2020.

DavidinSouthampton said:

I agree! I think the whole Sala thing is sickening - virtually claiming that they would be top of the league if he had arrived, and refusing to pay for him at the same time.

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This 100%. The outpouring for someone 99.9% of Bluebirds had never seen as ‘one of their own’ and the prodigal son about to propel them up the PL. Then it all emerges - the murky dealings with a bankrupt and unauthorised agent, capped by very promptly CCFC doing all they can to avoid paying a penny to the selling club who operate on far inferior finances.

Weststander said:

From finishing 15th.

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Thanks for that. I wasn't far out.

That might not include any monies for finishing 15th though. Depends on when the A/C Y/E was - That payment follows in the following August I think, so a truer reflection of the PL income will probably be in the next year's accounts but still £140m is a decent Return in that Y/E

Uh_huh_him said:

I think for most of the second half we were back to the level we were at before the slump. I appreciate that may not be good enough for you.
You seem to think that the players at our disposal could play a much more successful and entertaining style of football, if only we had a manager who played more attacking tactics.
What makes you think this?

I love all of the players in our squad, but they all have limitations.
The only players I can see being slightly held back are Propper and March. I don't think unleashing their full potential would make that much difference to our results.

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Well the 2nd half at Newcastle for a start, and the numerous other times when we've only started playing when going behind.

They are capable, I genuinely believe there's a few more points in this team than the 35 we currently have at this stage. The over cautious setup means that when we win the ball we cant get out as our whole outfield is compressed in our half.

One of the main reasons we create so few chances, then just hope for fouls so we can lump a free kick to the far post.

Mouldy Boots said:

Sorry I didn't mean to mislead you but I didn't want to bore anyone anymore on the detail.
In short I gave up my season ticket because of Hughtons style of football and I still came to the odd match with my whole family (including the daughter that didn't get her birthday shirt), then shirtgate happened and the inability of corporate Barber and the lack of customer service from his dictatorship to move an inch (like we give you an extra 20% off as a goodwill gesture).

It was that point i felt, stuff you I will spend my money and time elsewhere so got a personal trainer instead and from that day I have not spent 1 penny with the Albion.

Like i have said in the past, with me it goes against my principles and they are high on my agenda of life and these stuck their heads in the air and took control.

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Fair enough and cheerio then

NooBHA said:

Thanks for that. I wasn't far out.

That might not include any monies for finishing 15th though. Depends on when the A/C Y/E was - That payment follows in the following August I think, so a truer reflection of the PL income will probably be in the next year's accounts but still £140m is a decent Return in that Y/E

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CH has achieved his first job for TB by delivering 3 x £100m in additional income (assuming we stay up), ending the annual haemorrhage of cash (TB had injected £79m of personal funds in our last three Championship years).

Now onto significant first team improvements this summer, hopefully .

It would be a shame to get relegated, but deserved with the style of football we play under CH. Young kids play attacking football, the vast majority want to score goals. With the very few who manage to reach the top level, that mentality is coached out of them once their best position is discovered and team tactics applied.
We obviously do not have a lot of quality in our squad but with the right mindset they could be coached to play a more attacking style of play, which may bring back that passion they had when they first started to play and actually enjoy the game they are privileged enough to earn a decent salary from.
When I think of CH, I think “Grind”. We ground ourselves into the league, throwing away the title, and in spite of spending a modest amount on players have ground our way to our present position. Although I respect him as a man and a manager, IF we stay up, I would like a manager who could lift our squad out of the “Grind” to the next level with monetary support from Tony, and more importantly more attractive football.
I would rather go down than continually watch this morbid style of play under CH.

sussex_guy2k2 said:

I don't need to. We've not been a side in this position for a long, long time. But NOW we are in this position. Now we aren't a side that requires an excellent Championship manager. Instead, we need an excellent Premier League manager, and CH has proven many times over in the last two seasons that he's not that. A passable one maybe, but can he be improved upon? Absolutely!

And as I've stated many times over, there are just as many situations where clubs have changed manager to good effect. Just because Man Utd are struggling with it doesn't mean we will, relatively speaking of course.

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The Man Utd reference explains that just because we can attract a better calibre of manager, doesn't mean we get one. I think we have much further to fall with a bad appointment than we have the ability to rise with a better appointment, and the odds are that we will appoint worse.

It's been a day since I asked the question and no-one has even attempted to answer my question .... name 3 better managers we've EVER had?

Southern Scouse said:

It would be a shame to get relegated, but deserved with the style of football we play under CH. Young kids play attacking football, the vast majority want to score goals. With the very few who manage to reach the top level, that mentality is coached out of them once their best position is discovered and team tactics applied.
We obviously do not have a lot of quality in our squad but with the right mindset they could be coached to play a more attacking style of play, which may bring back that passion they had when they first started to play and actually enjoy the game they are privileged enough to earn a decent salary from.
When I think of CH, I think “Grind”. We ground ourselves into the league, throwing away the title, and in spite of spending a modest amount on players have ground our way to our present position. Although I respect him as a man and a manager, IF we stay up, I would like a manager who could lift our squad out of the “Grind” to the next level with monetary support from Tony, and more importantly more attractive football.
I would rather go down than continually watch this morbid style of play under CH.

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Oh come on, you are now just re-writing history to suit your agenda. We played some fantastic stuff coming up from The Championship.

Southern Scouse said:

It would be a shame to get relegated, but deserved with the style of football we play under CH. Young kids play attacking football, the vast majority want to score goals. With the very few who manage to reach the top level, that mentality is coached out of them once their best position is discovered and team tactics applied.
We obviously do not have a lot of quality in our squad but with the right mindset they could be coached to play a more attacking style of play, which may bring back that passion they had when they first started to play and actually enjoy the game they are privileged enough to earn a decent salary from.
When I think of CH, I think “Grind”. We ground ourselves into the league, throwing away the title, and in spite of spending a modest amount on players have ground our way to our present position. Although I respect him as a man and a manager, IF we stay up, I would like a manager who could lift our squad out of the “Grind” to the next level with monetary support from Tony, and more importantly more attractive football.
I would rather go down than continually watch this morbid style of play under CH.

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Excellently put and I like the word 'grind' in this instance.

I also am partial to a bit of non-footballing related 'grinding'.

Southern Scouse said:

It would be a shame to get relegated, but deserved with the style of football we play under CH. Young kids play attacking football, the vast majority want to score goals. With the very few who manage to reach the top level, that mentality is coached out of them once their best position is discovered and team tactics applied.
We obviously do not have a lot of quality in our squad but with the right mindset they could be coached to play a more attacking style of play, which may bring back that passion they had when they first started to play and actually enjoy the game they are privileged enough to earn a decent salary from.
When I think of CH, I think “Grind”. We ground ourselves into the league, throwing away the title, and in spite of spending a modest amount on players have ground our way to our present position. Although I respect him as a man and a manager, IF we stay up, I would like a manager who could lift our squad out of the “Grind” to the next level with monetary support from Tony, and more importantly more attractive football.
I would rather go down than continually watch this morbid style of play under CH.

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Twice CH has had to 'Grind' out results. The back end of Sami's season and the back end of this season.

I don't know about you, but it seems to me that the ability to 'grind' out results when we are in a dodgy situation seems like quite a good trait for a manager who has resources of a bottom 4 team in the Premier

And I do wonder whether we will go back to trying to play a more attacking style over the summer. Obviously, the experiment with the 'V' had to be abandoned this season (and it appears just in time !), but I get the impression that with the way the U23s are set up, and the signings of Ali J and Locadia, that this is a long term plan.

rippleman said:

We certainly did.

So perhaps the question to be asked is why we didn't start Solly & Knocky and play in that formation from the start (Gross playing as a right winger? With his lack of pace. Really? When you have two wingers sat on the bench).

But it wasn't only the players and formation though, it was a change of intent. We played with pace, ran with the ball and closed Newcastle down.

For me it just showed that we can play a different way, and do so successfully. We have the players (although perhaps not the squad) to compete outside the top 6 playing attacking and high paced football.

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I think there’s some re-writing of history going on with our second half vs Newcastle. We were better, but hardly playing exciting attacking football. We scored with our one shot on goal. It just feels like a new dawn because we’ve been so abysmal for months. The key for me is to look at similar clubs we might emulate - Watford have established themselves over years but were never as defensive as us. Newcastle bought Almiron who seemed to transform them (if he played Saturday I think we’d have lost). Bournemouth have played exciting football since thy come up. Of course all also pay higher average wages than we do which, unfortunately, I think has to be part of the answer (as well as changing the manager).

Gritt23 said:

The Man Utd reference explains that just because we can attract a better calibre of manager, doesn't mean we get one. I think we have much further to fall with a bad appointment than we have the ability to rise with a better appointment, and the odds are that we will appoint worse.

It's been a day since I asked the question and no-one has even attempted to answer my question .... name 3 better managers we've EVER had?

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What has that got to do with our current situation? As a club we bare no resemblance to previous eras, we are in the top 30 richest clubs in the world, but does our quality of play reflect that?

If we stay up, Chris has done his job. But if he remains, things must change, a shake up is needed both in the playing and the coaching staff.

I don't think Tony will get rid, he proved with Hyypia that he will stay loyal to his managers. So I hope we add a dedicated attacking coach to give balance to our defensive coaching team.

WATFORD zero said:

Twice CH has had to 'Grind' out results. The back end of Sami's season and the back end of this season.

I don't know about you, but it seems to me that the ability to 'grind' out results when we are in a dodgy situation seems like quite a good trait for a manager who has resources of a bottom 4 team in the Premier

And I do wonder whether we will go back to trying to play a more attacking style over the summer. Obviously, the experiment with the 'V' had to be abandoned this season (and it appears just in time !), but I get the impression that with the way the U23s are set up, and the signings of Ali J and Locadia, that this is a long term plan.

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I agree, although CH always seems to grind from the first game of the season! You may be right with the U23’s but I wonder just how much input Chris has there? AJ and Locardia IMO, were poor signings and they seem to be lost under Chris or perhaps his tactics, I don’t know. As a supporter, I just think we should as a club, with everything in place, be trying to entertain as well as grinding out results.

Johnny RoastBeef said:

What has that got to do with our current situation? As a club we bare no resemblance to previous eras, we are in the top 30 richest clubs in the world, but does our quality of play reflect that?

If we stay up, Chris has done his job. But if he remains, things must change, a shake up is needed both in the playing and the coaching staff.

I don't think Tony will get rid, he proved with Hyypia that he will stay loyal to his managers. So I hope we add a dedicated attacking coach to give balance to our defensive coaching team.

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Tricky one this - who would be overall in charge because if it remains CH (which seems most likely) I can imagine him vetoing 90% of the attacking coach's tactics.

Johnny RoastBeef said:

we are in the top 30 richest clubs in the world, but does our quality of play reflect that?

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Bottom 5 in the EPL in terms of record transfer fees paid, and wages. We do not compete for the same players that teams in mid-table do.

Whatever we want to believe, we have assembled a bottom third squad. With Gross and Izquierdo picking up injuries for long periods of this season, that has left us close to the drop.

And you still can't name 3 better managers EVER, then! Are you saying he's the BEST manager we've ever had, and yet you somehow believe that the next one will be even better. Honestly, what are the odds of that happening? Obviously not impossible, but you must see how unlikely that is. Anything worse than we've done this season, literally just one point worse, and it may be the difference between Premier and Championship next season. That's the risk, and what you are hoping for is ...... to see football like Burnley every week?

Gritt23 said:

The truth that a lot of people don't seem to like is that the Premier League is NOT the "greatest league in the World" it's actually shit. The top teams are far too good for most of us to compete with, far too many games have one team with 70%+ possession while the other teams clings on for their life behind a parked bus, and the greatest possible achievement for most is to become a team that lives out a life in mid-table obscurity. This is the promised land, apparently. Blame CH for this all you want, but sadly it;s the reality of the Premier League.

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Preach.

The Premier League, for me, is the very definition of the journey being better than the destination.

Southern Scouse said:

It would be a shame to get relegated, but deserved with the style of football we play under CH. Young kids play attacking football, the vast majority want to score goals. With the very few who manage to reach the top level, that mentality is coached out of them once their best position is discovered and team tactics applied.
We obviously do not have a lot of quality in our squad but with the right mindset they could be coached to play a more attacking style of play, which may bring back that passion they had when they first started to play and actually enjoy the game they are privileged enough to earn a decent salary from.
When I think of CH, I think “Grind”. We ground ourselves into the league, throwing away the title, and in spite of spending a modest amount on players have ground our way to our present position. Although I respect him as a man and a manager, IF we stay up, I would like a manager who could lift our squad out of the “Grind” to the next level with monetary support from Tony, and more importantly more attractive football.
I would rather go down than continually watch this morbid style of play under CH.

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But you haven't named 3 better managers at The Albion. The President of the Hughton Manager for Life Club is still waiting.

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Gritt23 said:

Bottom 5 in the EPL in terms of record transfer fees paid, and wages. We do not compete for the same players that teams in mid-table do.

Whatever we want to believe, we have assembled a bottom third squad. With Gross and Izquierdo picking up injuries for long periods of this season, that has left us close to the drop.

And you still can't name 3 better managers EVER, then! Are you saying he's the BEST manager we've ever had, and yet you somehow believe that the next one will be even better. Honestly, what are the odds of that happening? Obviously not impossible, but you must see how unlikely that is. Anything worse than we've done this season, literally just one point worse, and it may be the difference between Premier and Championship next season. That's the risk, and what you are hoping for is ...... to see football like Burnley every week?

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I loved the Championship, it's probably the most competitive football there is. No one parks the bus.

The Premier league was a nice novelty, but it's dull as hell when the team I love refuses to play football.