[Politics] Brexit

Westdene Seagull · Feb 1, 2019

Plooks said:
LOL! You think the youth of today have damaged the environment MORE the the previous generations! Laughable.

My parents didn't get a car until they started a family, I didn't get a car until I was 25 ..... when I went to 6th Form NO student had a car and every one of us walked or caught the bus to college. When I went poly nobody drove there ... it was always bus or foot.

Now look at how many students drive to Varndean 6th form. When I went to a Sussex Uni open day with my step daughter last year one the main benefits suggested was the availability, at a cost, was student parking.

Now look at how many young people change change their mobile phones every two years without fail - thus destroying the environment yet more.

A couple of years ago I spent some time on a panel looking at how the city deals with it's rubbish. Every stat highlighted that students are the worst for recycling ..... indeed most don't. And that doesn't include the fact they were by far the most guilty of fly tipping in their front gardens of rubbish. It costs City Clean over a million a year to clear up after students.

I know you hate it but the younger generation are the worst for destroying the environment.

JC Footy Genius · Feb 1, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
You seem like a very well informed leave voter, so just out of interest, when the economic damage of Brexit takes hold in Ireland and a whole generation of young, working class Irish, some of whom will be well into their 20s that can't remember, let alone have any concept of, the Troubles back in the 70's and 80's start to feel the ill effects and subsequently and rightly blame the British, how do you feel this resentment and ill feeling may manifest and present itself?

It is usual to see fans of the dear leader ignoring or condoning associating with terrorists but trying to suggest there could be any excuse for future terrorism is a new low ... give your head a wobble.

clapham_gull · Feb 2, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
It is usual to see fans of the dear leader ignoring or condoning associating with terrorists.

The Tories in the 80s were actively trying to do a deal with the IRA behind the scenes, but telling everyone they wouldn't deal with terrorists.

Let's not forget there were also attempting to offload the Falklands too.

I consider myself neither left or right and struggle to vote, but if you think Corbyn has monopoly of associating with "terrorists" you have swallowed the lie.

Berty23 · Feb 2, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
My parents didn't get a car until they started a family, I didn't get a car until I was 25 ..... when I went to 6th Form NO student had a car and every one of us walked or caught the bus to college. When I went poly nobody drove there ... it was always bus or foot.

Now look at how many students drive to Varndean 6th form. When I went to a Sussex Uni open day with my step daughter last year one the main benefits suggested was the availability, at a cost, was student parking.

Now look at how many young people change change their mobile phones every two years without fail - thus destroying the environment yet more.

A couple of years ago I spent some time on a panel looking at how the city deals with it's rubbish. Every stat highlighted that students are the worst for recycling ..... indeed most don't. And that doesn't include the fact they were by far the most guilty of fly tipping in their front gardens of rubbish. It costs City Clean over a million a year to clear up after students.

I know you hate it but the younger generation are the worst for destroying the environment.

When I was a kid we didn’t have the internet. Turn it off. Ridiculous argument.

Which generation bought the next cars?

I am not a millennial but to argue they do t care more about the environment is a bit daft. I have no idea how old you are but my parents generation (about 70) could not care less.

ManOfSussex · Feb 2, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
It is usual to see fans of the dear leader ignoring or condoning associating with terrorists but trying to suggest there could be any excuse for future terrorism is a new low ... give your head a wobble.

Coming from yourself, who doesn't care about the Good Friday Agreement because Brexit at any cost is more important, it's you who should be wobbling your head. The longstanding issues in Ireland have never gone away, the Good Friday Agreement was a reasonable sticking plaster for it, but with the border issues and economic cost now heading there as a result of the Brexit at any cost you, and other arrogant English people like you so cherish, perhaps you should also have a look in the mirror when wobbling it and be very careful what you wish for.

ManOfSussex · Feb 2, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
when I went to 6th Form NO student had a car and every one of us walked or caught the bus to college.

When I went to 6th form, Paul and Linda McCartney's youngest son James drove a vintage US Army jeep into college. Apart from that and being the son of a billionaire Beatle, he was state educated like the rest of us and almost normal. Which was nice. Quiet to the point of shy, he always had a very attractive girlfriend too - I could never work out what they saw in him. :shrug:

(Incidentally before he passed his test, Linda used to sometimes pick him up in a flashy Mercedes estate and drive all the way to Bexhill from Peasmarsh with 2 Old English Sheepdogs cooped up in the back - and she called herself an animal lover.

)

cunning fergus · Feb 2, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Interesting how everyone on this board is a Tory except you.

I think a few had a good idea about what you did for a living before you told us about your very intimate working knowledge of the regulation of financial markets and firms that operate within it.

As my old friend Neil E at Hewlett Packard used to say 'It's very easy for someone to pontificate about their socialist principles, when being supported by regular significant sums from a Capitalist Multi-million pound Multi-national'. Or maybe that was Confucius

Not everyone, certainly those who are consumed by a zeal to support the interests of global trade, monetarists and their political hand maidens in the EU/Tory Party undoubtedly are. If it wasn’t the way I eternally describe it (and it’s supporters) the EU would be in the sway of trade unionists and genuine socialist minded political actors fighting back against the interests of global capitalism but it’s not, and it never has.

I have never told anyone what I do on this board and to my knowledge no one else has. What you are guilty of here is making a classic series of assumptions to suit your bigotry from a mild reference from another poster.

This is symptomatic of your posting style, sweeping assumptions and conclusions heavily loaded with your own prejudice. What you aim to do in this post is suggest that I cannot hold socialist views as these are somehow incompatible with a certain type of occupation. How sad is that?

This not only demonstrates woeful debating skills, but ignores the points I make about the EU, simply in order to make a personal attack.

Now, for the record I don’t mind a personal attack, this thread used to have “name calling” in its title but I’m pretty sure I was removed for 18 months from the thread upsetting some of the thin skinned on here because I referred to them rightly as Tories........so don’t go complaining to Teacher because you don’t like it back.

You wretched failure of a man you.

cunning fergus · Feb 2, 2019

Baldseagull said:
No innuendo intended, I think it was fairly direct.
I am saying his policies were good for Luxembourg, even if morally and ethically questionable, but his role as Leader of Luxembourg was to ensure prosperity there, and you cannot say he was unsuccessful in that. As a small nation, there are limited ways to do it, he chose a way that was effective for Luxembourg and detrimental to the rest of the EU.
I don't know exactly what you do, but I have an idea, so hand on heart, can you say that when you have your best pay days, it isn't to someone else's detriment?
Do you produce something of use in society, aside from your income taxes?

There is so much about this post that represents the desperate extent some pro EU supporters go to in their support fo the EUit is staggering. It really is.

I honestly don’t know where to start.

I don’t like the EU for a number of reasons, and while hypocrisy is an ingredient in that mix, I wouldn’t suggest that as a political institution it’s worse than any other political or similar institution.

I think this post should just stand alone as a measure of yours though, so we can return to this in the future when you moan about lack of funding in the NHS or the excesses of Tory Toffs. Beautiful.

As for what I produce, I refer to my post to [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION].

You seem like another zero yourself.

cunning fergus · Feb 2, 2019

Baldseagull said:
P.S. this is one of the areas I am most keen for the EU to have some more power, to prevent the large corporate tax evasion by shifting to the lowest tax base.

Yes, and having Juncker at the helm of the EU to do that is like installing Myra Hindley as chair of a committee to improve childrens safety.

Laughable.

If you really believe Juncker is the man (gamekeeper) that can do this, then he should plead mea culpa, and there should be a moritorium on his time as president of Luxembourg, all the global corporates that avoided taxes can repay what they avoided. Till that happens I will conclude he is not serious and his supporters deluded.

cunning fergus · Feb 2, 2019

The Clamp said:
Only one minor problem. Everybody has a different idea of what a good deal is. Or no idea as the case may be.

I think that’s true, but in terms of the BEST deal the EU needs to think the U.K. is serious about no deal, which is the worst deal for everyone.

That may be considered by some as an aggressive step in negotiations but equally by Parliament taking off the table for the Govt it removes one of the most powerful levers it has.

It may of course not make or have made any difference, but I think many will see the deal as bad for that reason.

This country has a long history of negotiating weakly, in some of those cases because we were weak up front we ended up in the strong shit in the long run. This will be no different imo.

portslade seagull · Feb 2, 2019

cunning fergus said:
Yes, and having Juncker at the helm of the EU to do that is like installing Myra Hindley as chair of a committee to improve childrens safety.

Laughable.

If you really believe Juncker is the man (gamekeeper) that can do this, then he should plead mea culpa, and there should be a moritorium on his time as president of Luxembourg, all the global corporates that avoided taxes can repay what they avoided. Till that happens I will conclude he is not serious and his supporters deluded.

That's when he is sober. They pay him off with crates of wine

cunning fergus · Feb 2, 2019

The Clamp said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188

“The SMMT was clear that Brexit presented what it calls "the most significant threat to the competitiveness of the UK automotive sector in a generation"
Car investment HALVES.

Inward investment fell 46.5% to £588.6m last year from £1.1bn in 2017, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) says.
Production fell 9.1% to 1.52m vehicles, with output for the UK and for export falling 16.3% and 7.3% respectively.
Brexit uncertainty has "done enormous damage", said SMMT chief Mike Hawes

More bad news that will affect industry and the man on the street as car manafacturers sound red alert . Still, on our way, eh.

Very one eyed, I wouldn’t suggest Brexit uncertainty isn’t a factor, but it’s not on its own and I think less of a factor than these two....

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ma.../diesel-new-car-sales-fall-by-167-in-november

https://europe.autonews.com/article...china-auto-sales-post-biggest-drop-in-7-years

The trouble is, it’s hard to cut through fact from exaggeration isn’t it.........especially when it’s the natural inclination of some to do that.

Baldseagull · Feb 2, 2019

cunning fergus said:
There is so much about this post that represents the desperate extent some pro EU supporters go to in their support fo the EUit is staggering. It really is.

I honestly don’t know where to start.

I don’t like the EU for a number of reasons, and while hypocrisy is an ingredient in that mix, I wouldn’t suggest that as a political institution it’s worse than any other political or similar institution.

I think this post should just stand alone as a measure of yours though, so we can return to this in the future when you moan about lack of funding in the NHS or the excesses of Tory Toffs. Beautiful.

As for what I produce, I refer to my post to [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION].

You seem like another zero yourself.

We have found another area of agreement, it is no better or worse than any other political institution.
I think though that it is better with Britain in it, and that British Politics would be better in it. No one is claiming it or any of it's politicians are perfect, some are worse than others, step forward Farage, I am judging Junkers term as Luxembourg leader by the same standards I judged Bob Crow as leader of RMT, I might not like him or what he did, but he was good for his members and guess what? His job was to look out for the interests of his members. I do not condone Junkers practices in Luxembourg, I fully endorse his efforts to end these practices in EU states.
It is no secret that this is the economic model proposed by JRM, Farage and co, and you know it, I am starting to believe you are bullshitting about your desire for a socialist Utopia, because I don't think you are stupid, and you would have to be stupid to believe that is where we are heading with Brexit.

Deleted member 22389 · Feb 2, 2019

The Clamp said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188

“The SMMT was clear that Brexit presented what it calls "the most significant threat to the competitiveness of the UK automotive sector in a generation"
Car investment HALVES.

Inward investment fell 46.5% to £588.6m last year from £1.1bn in 2017, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) says.
Production fell 9.1% to 1.52m vehicles, with output for the UK and for export falling 16.3% and 7.3% respectively.
Brexit uncertainty has "done enormous damage", said SMMT chief Mike Hawes

More bad news that will affect industry and the man on the street as car manafacturers sound red alert . Still, on our way, eh.

Yes but what they didn't tell you, commercial vehicle production was up.

British commercial vehicle manufacturing increases 8.5% in 2018, following two years of decline.
Demand grows at home and overseas, rising 17.9% and 2.9% respectively.
Nearly six in 10 UK built CVs exported to global markets last year.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2019/01/uk-cv-manufacturing-grows-by-8-5-in-2018/

I can find lots more good news about manufacturing in this country. Nobody mentioned that Boeing opened a new manufacturing facility in Sheffield last October, machining parts and they are planning a second one.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/excl...-million-pound-factory-in-sheffield-1-9412737

cunning fergus · Feb 2, 2019

Rodney Thomas said:
I guess that’s a possibility but:

1. We’ve had two and a half years and no ones suggested a ‘fudge’ that remotely satisfies both sides;
2. You haven’t really answered my question of what other possible compromises exist. It’s probably because in reality such compromises do not exist.

I really fear a no deal brexit now. Not only have I had rights stripped from me that I have held from birth but I am now going to be faced with huge uncertainty to my private life, my business is likely to take a hit and that’s just when I’m selfish and think of myself. I don’t forsee the socialist future you hope for but one where the poorest become poorer and the rich increase their grip on a divide and fractured country that I feel (sometime) has changed beyond recognition from the one I grew up in.

I don’t really see a difference between a fudge and a compromise they will exist in any deal.........the deal May is getting is a fudge of the remain and leave votes and on face value a compromise with the EU.

I’m not sure what rights you are being “stripped” of........have I missed a meeting?

As a leaver I see the U.K. being liberated from the influence of the EU and it’s global corporatist puppet masters. The effect of this should be greater transparency for UK citizens to see what our Govts do, trade deals is a prime example. Currently the EU sets up its trade deals behind closed doors and they’re carried out by the Commission, hence TTIP (when it was being negotiated) was going to open up the NHS to US business.

I have trust that while the U.K. at large has a strong appetite for personal freedom (eg owning a home) I think it’s intuitively socialist minded, and that’s why it favours overwhelmingly nationalisation of state concerns.

Leaving the EU is a spring board for that if we want..........staying in is more of the same, poor getting poorer etc. Unless you noticed it was “the poor that won it” so to speak.

Baldseagull · Feb 2, 2019

cunning fergus said:
Yes, and having Juncker at the helm of the EU to do that is like installing Myra Hindley as chair of a committee to improve childrens safety.

Laughable.

If you really believe Juncker is the man (gamekeeper) that can do this, then he should plead mea culpa, and there should be a moritorium on his time as president of Luxembourg, all the global corporates that avoided taxes can repay what they avoided. Till that happens I will conclude he is not serious and his supporters deluded.

The article that you linked to https://www.theguardian.com/busines...blocked-eu-curbs-on-tax-avoidance-cables-show included this, "Juncker conceded the scandal had damaged his reputation. While not illegal, he admitted Luxembourg’s tax system was also “not always in line with fiscal fairness” and may have breached “ethical and moral standards”.

Since then, Juncker has made a point of supporting the EU’s competition commissioner, Margrethe Vestager, as she pursues high-profile investigations into specific tax rulings, including deals Luxembourg granted separately to McDonalds and Amazon.

If you want to make comparisons I would suggest the poacher turned Gamekeeper is close enough, no need to invoke a serial child murderer.
I know you don't want to talk about your work, but I think you might find it a rich source of ethically and morally questionable acts, and I would not be surprised if you were aware of some criminality within it, without suggesting you yourself are anything other than a paragon of virtue.

Berty23 · Feb 2, 2019

Why do some many people who slate junker make the point he is a drunk leader but then celebrate Churchill? Genuinely confused.

Baldseagull · Feb 2, 2019

cunning fergus said:
I don’t really see a difference between a fudge and a compromise they will exist in any deal.........the deal May is getting is a fudge of the remain and leave votes and on face value a compromise with the EU.

I’m not sure what rights you are being “stripped” of........have I missed a meeting?

As a leaver I see the U.K. being liberated from the influence of the EU and it’s global corporatist puppet masters. The effect of this should be greater transparency for UK citizens to see what our Govts do, trade deals is a prime example. Currently the EU sets up its trade deals behind closed doors and they’re carried out by the Commission, hence TTIP (when it was being negotiated) was going to open up the NHS to US business.

I have trust that while the U.K. at large has a strong appetite for personal freedom (eg owning a home) I think it’s intuitively socialist minded, and that’s why it favours overwhelmingly nationalisation of state concerns.

Leaving the EU is a spring board for that if we want..........staying in is more of the same, poor getting poorer etc. Unless you noticed it was “the poor that won it” so to speak.

The only way Brexit promotes Socialism is on the rebound of hard right policy that is coming. You utter fool. ****ing Bankers made us poorer not the EU, the Tories imposed austerity, not the EU, and just as those years of austerity are bringing us to a surplus instead of a defecit, we end up having to borrow more again because of ****ing Brexit.
It would be nice if I worked in that world to delude myself and blame the EU, is that is what is going on here?

Pretty Plnk Fairy · Feb 2, 2019

Baldseagull said:
I would not be surprised if you were aware of some criminality within it, without suggesting you yourself are anything other than a paragon of virtue.

No one likes a grass

Regards
DR

portslade seagull · Feb 2, 2019

Berty23 said:
Why do some many people who slate junker make the point he is a drunk leader but then celebrate Churchill? Genuinely confused.

At least Churchill helped achieve the freedoms they now have. Juncker is just a drunk who harasses women who has achieved diddly squat

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

Remain

Leave

Wouldn’t vote

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch

Bringer of TRUTH

Legacy Fan

Well-known member

We wunt be druv

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Deleted member 22389

Guest

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Share this page