Godspeed to our aircrew.

Eeyore · Dec 2, 2015

Naturally I wish them safe. And I'm not going to be sorry to hear the termination of the life of merciless killers.

I am not apologising for opposing this action though. Even if I am falsely branded a 'terrorist sympathiser' by our elected leader.

This action, I believe, is the start of a mission creep. One that is less defined by a humanitarian agenda, and more by a political one.

Ultimately thousands of innocent lives will be lost, and the straight lines, drawn with the skills of a Victorian cartographer on those proud pink maps of Africa, will be drawn again. To the winners the spoils.

ISIS are evil, they oppress the many. And a few of those governments involved in this action know all about that.

Meanwhile elsewhere in the world many people suffer in places that foreign policy doesn't reach- because their suffering is relevant only when it is proportional to another's national interest.

When are we bombing Burma ? We won't be, relieving the suffering those tortured souls is of no interest- because there isn't any profit in such interest

BrickTamland · Dec 2, 2015

looney said:
I dont consider them our youth.

You do an amazing job of doing ISIS's work for them.

“The Muslims in the West will quickly find themselves between one of two choices, they either apostatize and adopt the kufrī [infidel] religion propagated by Bush, Obama, Blair, Cameron, Sarkozy, and Hollande in the name of Islam so as to live amongst the kuffār [infidels] without hardship, or they perform hijrah [emigrate] to the Islamic State and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens... Muslims in the crusader countries will find themselves driven to abandon their homes for a place to live in the Khilāfah, as the crusaders increase persecution against Muslims living in Western lands so as to force them into a tolerable sect of apostasy in the name of 'Islam' before forcing them into blatant Christianity and democracy.”

Taken from their own bloody propaganda magazines.

looney · Dec 3, 2015

severnside gull said:
I understand what you say and I'm happy that morally I disagree. It's a debate of polar opposites perhaps for another day. But in this instance, and purely on the basis of hard numbers born here and educated here (and entirely unextraditable) you are wrong.

An opinion or beleif of something abstract cannot be wrong, By what objective measure are you using?. Islamic obligation is to conquor/spread Islam, its just a question of how.

severnside gull · Dec 3, 2015

BrickTamland said:
You do an amazing job of doing ISIS's work for them.

“The Muslims in the West will quickly find themselves between one of two choices, they either apostatize and adopt the kufrī [infidel] religion propagated by Bush, Obama, Blair, Cameron, Sarkozy, and Hollande in the name of Islam so as to live amongst the kuffār [infidels] without hardship, or they perform hijrah [emigrate] to the Islamic State and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens... Muslims in the crusader countries will find themselves driven to abandon their homes for a place to live in the Khilāfah, as the crusaders increase persecution against Muslims living in Western lands so as to force them into a tolerable sect of apostasy in the name of 'Islam' before forcing them into blatant Christianity and democracy.”

Taken from their own bloody propaganda magazines.

And therein lies the problem. Acts of terror provoke an entirely foreseeable response and the only way to defeat it is to choose to ignore the knee jerk and choose a route they cannot use so readily to glorify themselves.

Hard choices. No easy answers (certainly not from me).
The worry is that as you demonstrate so well, the easy choices are easy for a reason.

looney · Dec 3, 2015

BrickTamland said:
You do an amazing job of doing ISIS's work for them.

“The Muslims in the West will quickly find themselves between one of two choices, they either apostatize and adopt the kufrī [infidel] religion propagated by Bush, Obama, Blair, Cameron, Sarkozy, and Hollande in the name of Islam so as to live amongst the kuffār [infidels] without hardship, or they perform hijrah [emigrate] to the Islamic State and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens... Muslims in the crusader countries will find themselves driven to abandon their homes for a place to live in the Khilāfah, as the crusaders increase persecution against Muslims living in Western lands so as to force them into a tolerable sect of apostasy in the name of 'Islam' before forcing them into blatant Christianity and democracy.”

Taken from their own bloody propaganda magazines.

Quite right. We fight them here or there, I will not kneel down with you.

.

severnside gull · Dec 3, 2015

looney said:
Quite right. We fight them here or there, I will not kneel down with you.

.

No. We currently propose to fight them here AND there.
And they us.

looney · Dec 3, 2015

severnside gull said:
No. We currently propose to fight them here AND there.
And they us.

You are right, literally.

BadFish · Dec 3, 2015

severnside gull said:
No. We currently propose to fight them here AND there.
And they us.

All of which plays into the hands of those with extremist and radical views spoiling for a fight between Islam and the rest.

I suspect that the answer to this lay somewhere between ignoring/kneeling down and bloodshed as these extremes are the chosen weapons of the enemy.

Zebedee · Dec 3, 2015

Surrey_Albion said:
this! all the innocent lives about to be taken away

Just like in Paris sadly.

cloud · Dec 3, 2015

Two days until a terrorist attack on British soil

Surrey_Albion · Dec 3, 2015

[MENTION=350]Zebedee[/MENTION] i agree e also like the fact that American drone have already killed more innocent people than ISIS, in fact didn't I read today the "good ol US" have had 355 mass shootings this year also more than ISIS ...but they still legally own guns, the world's gone wrong

Hastings gull · Dec 3, 2015

severnside gull said:
And therein lies the problem. Acts of terror provoke an entirely foreseeable response and the only way to defeat it is to choose to ignore the knee jerk and choose a route they cannot use so readily to glorify themselves.
Hard choices. No easy answers (certainly not from me).
The worry is that as you demonstrate so well, the easy choices are easy for a reason.

Well, what is this route?

Hastings gull · Dec 3, 2015

BadFish said:
All of which plays into the hands of those with extremist and radical views spoiling for a fight between Islam and the rest.

I suspect that the answer to this lay somewhere between ignoring/kneeling down and bloodshed as these extremes are the chosen weapons of the enemy.[/QUOTE]

OK, so what is the answer?

Soulman · Dec 3, 2015

The why's and wherefores have been debated many times, I agree with the the ad title. Safe and successful missions, no RAF casualties, no loss of planes and hopefully no innocent victims would please me greatly

SteveTheSeagull · Dec 3, 2015

Zebedee said:
Just like in Paris sadly.

But at the end of the day an eye for an eye don't solve anything. All this bombing insures is more people will be looking to exact vengeance on the British if their family or friends are killed. Thus creating more terrorists and problems we don't need. We've played right into ISIS/ISIL/IS or whatever they go bys hands.

Diego Napier · Dec 3, 2015

SteveTheSeagull said:
But at the end of the day an eye for an eye don't solve anything. All this bombing insures is more people will be looking to exact vengeance on the British if their family or friends are killed. Thus creating more terrorists and problems we don't need. We've played right into ISIS/ISIL/IS or whatever they go bys hands.

So true, the innocent Syrian eyes taken in this bombing campaign will outweigh those lost in Paris and be measured in orders of magnitude.

Diego Napier · Dec 3, 2015

Captain Sensible said:
I know only 1 bomb can have devestating consequences and I'm not getting into the should we shouldn't we debate. But I was shocked to hear we are only talking about 6 or 7 planes!

Yep, they won't even scratch the surface.

Shropshire Seagull · Dec 3, 2015

With terrorist groups of the past, their demands and objectives were usually quite clear. e.g. IRA wanted Brits [protestants] out of Northern Ireland - the PLO [now Hezbollah] want Jews removed from Israel and Israel rebranded back to Palestine.

So what is the ISIS demand? That the entire population of the planet revert to Islam? aka Muslimanity

I know we've moved on and it was a few years ago, but weren't the crusades supposed to have resolved this?
Where is our NSC resident historian ....

looney · Dec 3, 2015

Shropshire Seagull said:
So what is the ISIS demand? ....

Their agenda isn't terror, that's just a bi-product. Their agenda is conquest, by violence. Its an islamic oblgation to expand the muslim world, they just differ in how. Rapid breeding isn't enough as non-muslims etc can see it coming, preying on women of other communities has diminishing returns., Helps to thin out the heard of the enemy. A slow process of culling but every bit helps.

Titanic · Dec 3, 2015

cloud said:
Two days until a terrorist attack on British soil

You could have said that any day in the past year and been no more certain or accurate.

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