[Football] The FA Cup - Are fans responsible for killing it?

Simontheseagull · May 23, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
It was killed when Edwardes asked to have Man U play in a tinpot money compo in the US and not play in the FA cup that year, and the FA agreed. That was around 20 years ago.

Think you will find it was the FA and not Edwards who wanted Manchester United to play in the FIFA World Club Championship as part of the FA's bid to host the World Cup in England. At that time the FA had the England football team playing a lot of meaningless friendlies around the world to try and get corrupt FIFA delegates to vote for England to host the World Cup.

"The title holders Manchester United, withdrew from the 1999–2000 competition due to their participation in the 2000 FIFA Club World Championship in South America, to take place in early 2000 thus becoming the first FA Cup winners not to defend their title. Despite this being at the request of the Football Association (FA), they received criticism from journalists and television pundits."

ManOfSussex · May 23, 2019

It's down to a combination of reasons, some that have already been mentioned:

Man Utd not defending it in 2000 due to The FA currying favour with FIFA.
The move to Cardiff from the old Wembley due it's rebuild.
The ending of replays - first the final, then the semis, then the quarters, now the 5th round.
Semis being all played at Wembley devaling the occasion of the final.
The end to the 3pm cup final kick off.
For the big clubs finishing in the top 4 in the Premier League is now more important.
For all other clubs staying in the Premier League is more important.
For Championship clubs promotion to the Premier League is more important and the play off final is a more important game now.
European football is now all about the Champions League. The Cup Winners Cup ending and the fact nobody really wants Thursday-Sunday games as a result of being in the Europa League devalues it.
Globally the Premier League has far more prestige and interest and he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Icy Gull · May 23, 2019

I am one fan who won’t be even a little upset if we play the fringe players and youth in cup games this season. Totally lost it’s magic for me.

Worthing exile · May 23, 2019

happypig said:
Semi-finals at Wembley.
No replays after a certain point.
Final on at teatime.
Clubs fielding reserves.

None of these are fans' doing.

Also not helped by Spurs using Wembley as their home ground. It lost some of the magic of teams and fans 'getting to Wembley' and having a once in a lifetime day out. Like it or lump it they should have been made to groundshare then maybe the new ground would have been finished on time.

nicko31 · May 23, 2019

happypig said:
Semi-finals at Wembley.
No replays after a certain point.
Final on at teatime.
Clubs fielding reserves.

None of these are fans' doing.

I still love it

Problem is when club don't take it seriously it feeds into the fans. Credit to Albion for giving it a go..

Teams like Liverpool should be holding their heads in shame

Harry Wilson's tackle · May 23, 2019

Simontheseagull said:
Think you will find it was the FA and not Edwards who wanted Manchester United to play in the FIFA World Club Championship as part of the FA's bid to host the World Cup in England. At that time the FA had the England football team playing a lot of meaningless friendlies around the world to try and get corrupt FIFA delegates to vote for England to host the World Cup.

"The title holders Manchester United, withdrew from the 1999–2000 competition due to their participation in the 2000 FIFA Club World Championship in South America, to take place in early 2000 thus becoming the first FA Cup winners not to defend their title. Despite this being at the request of the Football Association (FA), they received criticism from journalists and television pundits."

Thanks for the correction. The outcome was the same though, whichever fools initiated and sanctioned it. I was disgusted at the time and thought 'well, that's the end of the FA cup as a meaningful competition for me'. The fact it brings in so little financial reward compared with PL league position has only added to this. Should the winner get a place in the Champion's League to fix this? No. No. Sadly I think it is now too late for the FA cup. Didn't Wigan win it recently? I went to the Citeh semi, but it was more a fun day out than the second equal most prestigious game in our history (behind the 83 FA cup final and equal with the 83 semi final, as it might have been, had the FA cup any real cachet). I can reel off 50 games from memory that have a more important value to me as a Brighton fan than the Citeh semi. Oh well.

Mackenzie · May 23, 2019

The death of Grandstand and the all day coverage didn't help either.

papajaff · May 23, 2019

Agree with all on here who say clubs and the FA are responsible.

Semi finals at Wembley are a terrible thing. Wembley itself is just another stadium now. When they knocked down the magnificent Twin Towers of the Empire Stadium, Wembley died. A feckin soulless arch to replace it. The Cup Final played at 5pm, what's all that about?

NooBHA · May 23, 2019

Questions said:
Everyone is responsible indirectly. Everyone who subscribes to Pay TV to watch the Champions League and the Premier League have elevated those competitions and given it all it’s wealth at the cost of the importance of the FA Cup. The Premier League is everything now and that has elevated the Championship as well as it’s so close to the promised land. Derby and WBA..... weakened teams remember. No going back now. Shame as it was the best day of the year once but there you go.

This is 100% the Correct answer - TV Companies have killed the competition

There is so much wealth in the other competitions that it is little wonder that Chairmen and Managers at the PL Clubs chose to concentrate their Agenda where the wealth is. Add to this the fact that the PL Clubs have a 25 man squad where in most but not all, their second string Eleven can often dispose of the lower league clubs in the earlier rounds.

The fans still love it but there is such an imbalance in the squads. So much so that even the clubs hoping to reach the PL don't even play their first eleven for fear of getting injuries, which might hamper their assault on trying to reach the PL where the wealth is.

studio150 · May 23, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
It was killed when Edwardes asked to have Man U play in a tinpot money compo in the US and not play in the FA cup that year, and the FA agreed. That was around 20 years ago.

It was in Brazil not America but agree that's when the FA Cup started reducing in significance

Wozza · May 23, 2019

Gazwag said:
I'll add to that "Football on TV"

In the good old days the FA Cup final was the ONLY English live club match in the year on TV

Indeed. This is the biggest issue imo. It's simply not a special game on TV anymore.

The rounds aren't interesting to (spoilt) armchair viewers unless big teams are involved - Arsenal v Man Utd in the 4th round got more UK viewers than the cup final!

I think it's still important to players and fans of most clubs... when they think they have a chance of winning.

Virtually any league team would have taken more fans to the semi than Man City..

And it's still a major trophy. But obv miles behind the Champions League now (which is also mostly crap until the final stages).

symyjym · May 23, 2019

Our our FA Cup run sure as hell didn't feel like the heroic 83 one when we celebrated a 4-0 defeat and relegation. They were very entertaining days and I don't remember not enjoying football over a bad performance. Might have been my age and the distraction of being in the stands having a laugh that glossed over the bad stuff, but I don't ever remember feeling frustrated apart from against Arsenal on our first game in the First Division.

2019 is totally overshadowed by 1983 in my mind as a whole season. Style of football kills it not the fans.

southstandandy · May 23, 2019

Did you see the empty corporate seats during the final. Apparently over 300 people with these seats spent the entire match in the bar!

The-Libertine · May 23, 2019

My dream is to see Brighton win a major honour. For me, an FA Cup win would be fantastic and I love the competition.

Sadly, you win so much more money for finishing 17th (or 20th) in the Premier League than winning the FA Cup. As a result, owners, managers, shareholders etc have slowly lost interest in the domestic cup competitions.

So I think the correct answer to the question is that money has killed the FA Cup.

Gritt23 · May 23, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
We got to a quarter final last season, then went 1 further with a semi final. Why on earth would we want to belittle our growing cup pedigree, simply to serve a narrative regarding a manager change? I honestly don't get it.

That is a very good point. I don't remember anyone belittling it when we were in the SF, only doing so retrospectively to suit the narrative of "Hughton Out".

But to the overall point, it's TV, the clubs themselves and the relative wealth of other competitions that has killed the FA Cup.

Gregory2Smith1 · May 23, 2019

I'm glad I remember when it was a great competition

Sunderland beating Leeds (Arsenal in the semis)

Southampton beating Man United

the likes of Ipswich & Coventry winning it

the 1980 FA Cup
when Arsenal & Liverpool took 4 games to decide the semi final
both playing full strength teams
the eventual winners Arsenal then went and lost the final to 2nd divsion West Ham :lol:

and then the winners would qualify for the Cup Winners Cup
a brilliant european competition

I know it's all about money
but when finishing 4th in the league is more rewarding than winning the FA Cup
it will always be side show

Sheebo · May 23, 2019

Saying it’s dead is a matter of opinion. I don’t think it is. I think it’s made a bit of a comeback compared to 5-6 years ago. I love it.

Gritt23 · May 23, 2019

Gazwag said:
I'll add to that "Football on TV"

In the good old days the FA Cup final was the ONLY English live club match in the year on TV

This.

That is one of the things that made it so special. To see a WHOLE MATCH, every last detail and to see it LIVE was just incredible. That was an event in itself, even before all the pomp and circumstance. The whole build up was about getting to know these players in more depth, finding out things about them beyond what we saw on the pitch because in those days everything about every player was all over 24 hr news channels.

I'll add that it was also getting to see your team on MOTD in the rounds leading up to it as well. MOTD wouldn't show every game, there weren't cameras at every game. So, even if your team was in the First Division you only saw their highlights a few times a season, but get a plum draw, or get to the latter stages and your chances of being on telly (just highlights) were getting better.

Saturation TV coverage of absolutely everything has inevitably made TV coverage less special, and that was a big part of what made the FA Cup so exciting.

beorhthelm · May 23, 2019

i dont recall much apathy during the build up to the semi-final. not sure if there is denouncement of our run either, maybe just havent seen/read it. i think confusion between apathy and disappointment.

that said i dont think the cup has as much appeal as it did, more so as you go up the leagues. it becomes a distraction, you're not looking for to who you can get in the 3rd round but will the 4th round game get shifted if we draw. i do blame Sky a bit because there is so much football on TV having an FA cup game isnt as big a deal.

schmunk · May 23, 2019

This video covers it nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NnxObhRkiw

(albeit many of the points have already been made above)

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