[Football] Claridge: 'Ref's decision could cost Boro promotion'

Triggaaar · Apr 30, 2016

edna krabappel said:
I heard somebody saying last week that it looked like that last minute equaliser by Burnley was going to cost us automatic promotion. I can understand why people say it, but really, that last minute goal was no more significant than any other equaliser we've let in. No more significant than Milton Keynes spanking a 93rd minute penalty wide either.

Well it was a bit more significant, as it was against a promotion rival, giving them an extra point.

Bad luck= Barton not getting sent off, and then winning the late free kick from which Burnley scored. Good luck: the moment in the same game where the ball looked like it crossed the line and wasn't given.

They wouldn't have had that chance if Barton had been sent off, he passed it down the wing. If he had been sent off, we'd have been a goal up against 10 men, and would have won. So the bad luck completely outweighed the good.

Driver8 said:
Offside. As an earlier poster said look at the mower lines. Camera angle makes him look onside.

It just looks really close to me, probably on side. But 0.2 seconds before that, he was a yard closer to the goal. The linesman can't pause the image as the pass is made, it was a really difficult decision.

SeagullCrow · Apr 30, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Well it was a bit more significant, as it was against a promotion rival, giving them an extra point.

They wouldn't have had that chance if Barton had been sent off, he passed it down the wing. If he had been sent off, we'd have been a goal up against 10 men, and would have won. So the bad luck completely outweighed the good.

It just looks really close to me, probably on side. But 0.2 seconds before that, he was a yard closer to the goal. The linesman can't pause the image as the pass is made, it was a really difficult decision.

But the ramifications are even more important in the case of Barton. It means that he would have been suspended for the following 3 games, and who's to say how Burnley would have performed in his absence? He's certainly been one of their better players this season.

That said, it's all conjecture. As [MENTION=249]edna krabappel[/MENTION] points out, these things even out over the course of the season, and there have certainly been times this season when our players were lucky to stay on the field.

Sussex Nomad · Apr 30, 2016

I don't get why Claridge is on the head of this thread and why a few berate him. He has a wealth of knowledge in the Football League, much more so than some idiots in journalism. I don't know and didn't hear what he said, but that was a goal. Claridge is a good pundit. He is missed now we have that shower on Channel 5? 4? I dunno.

Triggaaar · Apr 30, 2016

SeagullCrow said:
But the ramifications are even more important in the case of Barton. It means that he would have been suspended for the following 3 games, and who's to say how Burnley would have performed in his absence? He's certainly been one of their better players this season.

Yes good point, I'd forgotten about that.

That said, it's all conjecture. As @edna krabappel points out, these things even out over the course of the season

That's just not true though, it's a lazy answer. If we count incorrect decisions on penalties, red card incidents, and goals wrongly given / not given - there could be say 10 a year for each team. That's not the sort of number that's going to average out for each team, it's just too small.

McTavish · Apr 30, 2016

Captain Sensible said:
You are right, there's no such thing as not interfering with play anymore. It's 'seeking to gain an advantage'. He was offside initially, his position when he recieved the ball was irrelevant. This season the rule changed back to the more traditional sense of offside. I shouted offside as soon as I saw him score. I then thought bugger, those lucky b'stards had got away with it, until thankfully I saw the flag, it was late, but it was offside.

This is wrong.

The three reasons for being penalised for being in an offside position are: interfering with play, interfering with an opponent or gaining an advantage by being in that position - page 36 if you want to check: http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Foo...ng/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf
What has changed this season is that there has been some clarification/re-interpretation of what "interfering with an opponent" means
The only reason Ayala was given offside was that when the final ball before his shot was played to him the lino thought that he was in an offside position. I think the lino got it spot on - as has already been said, the camera angle is very deceptive.

edna krabappel · Apr 30, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Yes good point, I'd forgotten about that.

That's just not true though, it's a lazy answer. If we count incorrect decisions on penalties, red card incidents, and goals wrongly given / not given - there could be say 10 a year for each team. That's not the sort of number that's going to average out for each team, it's just too small.

Not meaning to be flippant here, but surely if every team gets ten bad decisions a season, then that is averaging out, isn't it? In a competitive sense, I mean.

I just think with things like penalties, you're as likely to get a bad one for you as against you, certainly at this end of the division. Obviously somebody like Charlton will concede more, simply because they let opponents get into their penalty area more frequently

Pretty Plnk Fairy · Apr 30, 2016

woundnt of happened 30 years ago, lads would be on the pitch first and then lino would be still shakeing in his dressing room and a few decent lads would be outside waiting for him to have a chat

Regards

DR

Sussex Nomad · Apr 30, 2016

Pretty Plnk Fairy said:
woundnt of happened 30 years ago, lads would be on the pitch first and then lino would be still shakeing in his dressing room and a few decent lads would be outside waiting for him to have a chat

Regards

DR

Why do I get the feeling you were the skinny, pimply 16 year old in the 70s that happened to be in awe of your East Street peers?

Thunder Bolt · Apr 30, 2016

Captain Sensible said:
You are right, there's no such thing as not interfering with play anymore. It's 'seeking to gain an advantage'. He was offside initially, his position when he recieved the ball was irrelevant. This season the rule changed back to the more traditional sense of offside. I shouted offside as soon as I saw him score. I then thought bugger, those lucky b'stards had got away with it, until thankfully I saw the flag, it was late, but it was offside.

McTavish said:
This is wrong.

The three reasons for being penalised for being in an offside position are: interfering with play, interfering with an opponent or gaining an advantage by being in that position - page 36 if you want to check: http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Foo...ng/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf
What has changed this season is that there has been some clarification/re-interpretation of what "interfering with an opponent" means
The only reason Ayala was given offside was that when the final ball before his shot was played to him the lino thought that he was in an offside position. I think the lino got it spot on - as has already been said, the camera angle is very deceptive.

That's what he said.

Triggaaar · Apr 30, 2016

edna krabappel said:
Not meaning to be flippant here, but surely if every team gets ten bad decisions a season, then that is averaging out, isn't it?

Yes, I meant roughly 10 on average, so some would get 7, others would get 13. There's no way every team would get exactly 10.

I just think with things like penalties, you're as likely to get a bad one for you as against you

I agree, but some years things will go your way more, and other years things will go against you a bit more. You want to have one of your luckier years when you're pushing for promotion or fighting relegation, and save your unlucky years when when you're mid table fodder.

lizard · Apr 30, 2016

Claridge is a complete bellend.
We've certainly had our fair share of poor decisions this season.
The only thing to cost Middleborough promotion will be the Albion, when we give them a thumping to win the league. :thumbsup:

edna krabappel · Apr 30, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Yes, I meant roughly 10 on average, so some would get 7, others would get 13. There's no way every team would get exactly 10.

I agree, but some years things will go your way more, and other years things will go against you a bit more. You want to have one of your luckier years when you're pushing for promotion or fighting relegation, and save your unlucky years when when you're mid table fodder.

To a degree that must be a bit cause-and-effect. You play well, you get the ball in the box more, you're more likely to be in a position to ask for a penalty (unless you're Bournemouth last season, in which case you get one when you ask for one). You win more games as a result, your confidence grows and so do your chances of getting penalties. You play badly, the reverse applies, both to your strikers and to your defence. Think we got about 15 the season Poyet's side won League One. Though we did our best to nullify the effect by missing most of them.

Perhaps when you're winning regularly, you tend to forget the bad ones which go against you much more easily than when you're struggling, when every perceived injustice feels like a dagger to the heart.

Sussex Nomad · Apr 30, 2016

lizard said:
Claridge is a complete bellend.

Seriously unbelievable. You must know your football inside out.

Triggaaar · Apr 30, 2016

edna krabappel said:
To a degree that must be a bit cause-and-effect. You play well, you get the ball in the box more, you're more likely to be in a position to ask for a penalty (unless you're Bournemouth last season, in which case you get one when you ask for one).

No you've misunderstood - I'm not talking about getting 7 to 13 penalties, I'm talking about the number of bad decisions that go against you (red cards, penalties, goals allowed/disallowed)

lizard · Apr 30, 2016

Sussex Nomad said:
Seriously unbelievable. You must know your football inside out.

Sorry to disappoint, but no, I'm a Brighton fan, my football knowledge is very limited indeed. I'm terribly sorry if I gave you the impression that I'm some sort of expert. I accept need to be more careful in the future as I can see how easily some members of this forum can become confused.
To clarify my earlier point: If I was to decide to brush up my unbias punditary skills to become an 'expert' on all things football, Steve Claridge would certainly not be the roll model for my venture.
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding, I have to get back to work now. Have a great day.

Sussex Nomad · Apr 30, 2016

lizard said:
Sorry to disappoint, but no, I'm a Brighton fan, my football knowledge is very limited indeed. I'm terribly sorry if I gave you the impression that I'm some sort of expert. I accept need to be more careful in the future as I can see how easily some members of this forum can become confused.
To clarify my earlier point: If I was to decide to brush up my unbias punditary skills to become an 'expert' on all things football, Steve Claridge would certainly not be the roll model for my venture.
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding, I have to get back to work now. Have a great day.

Your sarcasm precedes you. When it come to punditary Claridge knows his stuff. I'm a little bit sad you only know BHA and not the wider world.

jonny.rainbow · Apr 30, 2016

Steve Claridge is a walking talking contradiction.

A football league 'expert' who, trivia aside, proves time and time again he has little knowledge of a lot of teams.

Sussex Nomad · Apr 30, 2016

jonny.rainbow said:
Steve Claridge is a walking talking contradiction.

A football league 'expert' who, trivia aside, proves time and time again he has little knowledge of a lot of teams.

Really? As opposed to whom, may I ask?

lizard · Apr 30, 2016

Sussex Nomad said:
Your sarcasm precedes you. When it come to punditary Claridge knows his stuff. I'm a little bit sad you only know BHA and not the wider world.

It disappoints me also, truth be told, maybe half the football I watch is English, occasionally I form interests abroad but English is the easiest to watch here. I'm in no way saying I'm a BHA expert either. To be an expert in something I believe takes time and dedication, and when push comes to shove I have neither of those in abundance when it comes to learning the game inside out. I am passionate about BHA but could not tell the pass completion percentage of our midfield or compare on an analytical basis the distance covered per chance created of our wingers. I know there are people out there that could, and that's awesome but I personally opt to spend my time in a different manner.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Claridge. Does he really think that disallowed goal could be the reason Boro don't go up?
Having looked again, it doesn't seem as clear cut of a bad decision that I too thought it to be, but due the camera angle skewing the perspective, if you look at the mower lines it does throw it back into debate. Either way, it wasn't a goal as it wasn't given.
Unfortunately football is full of officiating errors. A few weeks back, Burnley scored a late equaliser against us, this ultimately came about from a freekick awarded to Joey Barton. Barton should not have been on the pitch at the time. If they hadn't have won that freekick and equalised, potentially we would be 4 points clear of third right now.
Every club will have a list of would, should, could'ave beens, that's the nature of the game and I don't see it likely to change much until linemen are replaced with instant video analysis, verbally streamed to the referee to ensure tight decisions are near 100% complete, even then human error could still occasionally adversely effect outcomes.
Wow, I'm babbling now. Not getting much work done but at least Palarse lost.
:albion2:

Sussex Nomad · Apr 30, 2016

lizard said:
It disappoints me also, truth be told, maybe half the football I watch is English, occasionally I form interests abroad but English is the easiest to watch here. I'm in no way saying I'm a BHA expert either. To be an expert in something I believe takes time and dedication, and when push comes to shove I have neither of those in abundance when it comes to learning the game inside out. I am passionate about BHA but could not tell the pass completion percentage of our midfield or compare on an analytical basis the distance covered per chance created of our wingers. I know there are people out there that could, and that's awesome but I personally opt to spend my time in a different manner.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Claridge. Does he really think that disallowed goal could be the reason Boro don't go up?
Having looked again, it doesn't seem as clear cut of a bad decision that I too thought it to be, but due the camera angle skewing the perspective, if you look at the mower lines it does throw it back into debate. Either way, it wasn't a goal as it wasn't given.
Unfortunately football is full of officiating errors. A few weeks back, Burnley scored a late equaliser against us, this ultimately came about from a freekick awarded to Joey Barton. Barton should not have been on the pitch at the time. If they hadn't have won that freekick and equalised, potentially we would be 4 points clear of third right now.
Every club will have a list of would, should, could'ave beens, that's the nature of the game and I don't see it likely to change much until linemen are replaced with instant video analysis, verbally streamed to the referee to ensure tight decisions are near 100% complete, even then human error could still occasionally adversely effect outcomes.
Wow, I'm babbling now. Not getting much work done but at least Palarse lost.

I appreciate your full come back and not just calling me a c*nt, like so many would. I could answer but I can't be arsed, and that is not because of you, but I'm cooking and shit. I wish you much love and life my friend.

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[Football] Claridge: 'Ref's decision could cost Boro promotion'

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