GT49er
Well-known member
Both had broken through into the first team before CH arrived. He improved them; he didn't find them in the youth team and promote them.
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[Albion] Simon Rusk interview - The Guardian
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Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
He was the one who stuck with them. Cook and Elphick went because Poyet didn't rate them after debuts by McGhee and Slade. Surely it's not about who gives them their debut, it's who develops them. Connolly, Tilley, Molumby, Gyokeres, Barclay, Collar, Hunt, White, have all had senior debuts under Hughton this season and last, while in the top flight with the strongest first teams squads we've arguably ever had in terms of depth.
Anyway, this is off my point in that we haven't been a club to bring lots of youngsters through, and Hughton certainly cannot be accused of bucking a trend in that regard. He arguably had the toughest job of any of his predecessors giving youth a go given the strengthening of the squad and the demands of the top flight.
If these youngsets tear up the PL next season, we'll know he was wrong not to have given them a bit more time this season. We'll have to wait and see.
Whitechapel
Famous Last Words
It’s not nonsense at all. In fact claiming Andone got starts due to his good form in the Cup is nonsense. He’d already played well and scored before we’d even entered the FA Cup, likewise Bissouma who had put in some excellent performances prior to the Bournemouth game. In fact my point that good Cup performances didn’t translate in to league starts is best summed up with Bissouma & Andone.
Andone scored against Bournemouth and was dropped to the bench the following week in favour of Murray
Bissouma scored against Bournemouth and was dropped to the bench the following week in favour of Groß
In fact; 9 of the players who started against Bournemouth were dropped for the following week despite us playing extremely well.
Button & Burn played well against West Brom at home, both were dropped for the next league game.
Bissouma was MOTM against Derby and was dropped to the bench for the next game
Locadia scored against Derby. Started on the bench for the next game.
As for saying Hughton didn’t have favourites... that is ridiculous. All managers have favourites to some extent. If fit; Ryan, Dunk, Duffy, Stephens, Groß & Propper we’re almost guaranteed to start. They came off the bench twice between them in the league ffs. If they were match fit then they started, regardless of their form, or the form of anyone else.
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
It still backs up what I'm saying as far as I'm concerned. Elphick's 153 were all League One bar 1, then he was shipped as not deemed good enough for the Championship despite then making over 120 appearances in the Championship and 12 in the PL thereafter. Cook only got 3 appearances in total, Fenelon 2 appearances. Forster Caskey did really well with 67. Lets not forget these appearances were all over different managers too, rather than 1 manager with a particular eye on youth.
March under Hughton has 112 appearances, Dunk 171. 283 appearances of players under Hughton from our development.
I'll rest my case on that.
Just goes to prove that Chris never gave youth a chance, which is one of the reasons he got sacked... playing players already developed by other managers (Dunk & March) does NOT show he gave youth a chance... manager's in the past have given youngsters a break too... whether they stayed with us or moved on is totally and utterly irrelevant... you really are proving yourself to be a clown TBH...
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
This... either BS is being deliberately provocative, or he/she is just stupid...
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
FFS. Chris really didn't give enough chances to our U23's. He got the sack, partly (only partly) for this reason. Potter will not make the same mistake. Do you have ANY faith in our chairman over your beloved ex manager? I doubt it...
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
It's not even worth a discussion if you are going to miss the point with your lazy attempts at having a dig. You've got a fixed view on things, maybe just focus on that.
the right footed denilson
New member
I'm very much in the 'youth in' camp.
But do you mind telling me exactly when, over the last two seasons, playing at the most competitive level we ever have, when exactly the youth team should have featured?
Who? Which games?!
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Nope, just some old duffers cannot grasp the point I'm making without thinking its just defending Hughton.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Exactly. I'm not defending Hughton at all. It is posing the question when were we bringing all these youngsters through before, in lower leagues with less strength in the squad, to probably the strongest depth in our squads in our history.
I'd love to see us bringing more young players through. I was genuinely devastated we let Elphick and Cook go and NSC will have a record somewhere of me saying so, as well as young players at the time like Barnes.
symyjym
Banned
I seem to remember that the moderator [MENTION=3566]hans kraay fan club[/MENTION] claiming that this was a fact when I said I doubt it. I thought he was always right.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Cook & Elphick both played under Poyet. Elphick was out for 8 months with a ruptured achilles tendon, and in the meantime Cook went on loan to Bournemouth because they were in League 1 & we were a Championship team. Bournemouth wanted to keep him so made an offer at the end of his loan spell. He was already there when the court case started. Elphick then made a bit of a comeback after injury but Bournemouth made a bid that August, and he could see he was going to get regular game time in Lge 1.
Bournemouth then got promoted twice.
Tommy has been released by Villa so maybe we could get him back, or could it be he is a Championship level player, after all.
symyjym
Banned
Sam Adekugbe the Canadian was a good left back with a good cross on him and Henrik Bjordal looked good in his preseason a couple of seasons ago.
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
Says the poster with a fixed view based on incorrect data interpretation... a hypocritical clown...
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
That is not my job... maybe Chris should have thought a bit harder about that, eh!?
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
Old yes (well, middle-aged), duffer no... you are defending Chris (admirable BTW), but giving zero credence to our beloved chairman who, I believe, knows more than all of us, including you...
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
I agree with you about Cook and Elphick leaving.. but how do you think they got their moves away from us? By us not giving them a chance? Your logic is flawed...
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I'm not defending Chris.
All through this thread I am saying it's not as easy to bring youngsters through as people think. I'm then saying we have a strong first team squad in the top flight making it even harder to bring youth through, and comparing that with the past 10 years when we weren't bringing youngsters through that often either. That is not defending Chris, that is just stating where we are with the youth system and where we have been.
The difference is you are blaming Chris for the present team not having more youth representation, I am saying it is more complicated than that, backed up by Simon Rusk's article I might add, and doesn't really have any relevance to my opinion of the chairman.
I don't pretend to know why Bloom sacked Chris, you seem to know, but then you do seem to know everything in regard to what other people are thinking it would seem, stray from your opinion, and they're stupid, clowns or whatever else.
Ninja Elephant
Doctor Elephant
- Feb 16, 2009
- 18,855
Players need to play in order to develop, leaving us to play meant they could further their careers. Who is to say that binning off Upson, El-Abd or Greer, which nobody wanted to do at the time, would have enabled Cook and/or Elphick to develop as quickly in our team and result in them being as good as they've become? At the time, everyone said the same things; 1) It's better for the players' careers to leave us for first team football and 2) The sale of Steve Cook may go on to look foolish if he develops as much as people expected him to. But that doesn't overpower the first point.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.