[Politics] Brexit

nicko31 · Jan 30, 2019

Little surprise the EU more united than ever, the Tories are back in the fantasy land they were two and a half years ago. Lots of talk of off border checks, technology that hasn't been invented and side agreements already dismissed long ago

If it is no deal, this needs to be ratified by the public, this was not the Brexit promised in 2016, who voted for WTO, breaking a peace treaty, job losses and hardship?

Whilst May's deal is crap, 52% voted for crap not chaos....

Simster · Jan 30, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Do you think the EU's Chief negotiator Michel Barnier was lying/ bullshitting the other day when he said: "We will have to find an operational way of carrying out checks and controls without putting back in place a border." and "We would be obliged to carry out controls on goods arriving in the Republic of Ireland. My team have worked hard to study how controls can be made paperless or decentralised, which will be useful in all circumstances," in the event of a no deal Brexit?

Yep.

But to be fair, he's not actually said "a hard border is avoidable", it's little more than a stream of consciousness amounting to an unattainable wish-list. Call me when you find an example of a frictionless border that doesn't satisfy the 3 criteria I set out. You can either accept the reality or carry on sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la not listening". Or you can carry on blaming the RoI for having the temerity to not following the UK government when it decides to move the goalposts and change it's trading status.

nicko31 · Jan 30, 2019

Two Professors said:
Or Eire could rejoin the Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth won't exists in a few years, its had its day and serves little purpose...

WATFORD zero · Jan 30, 2019

Two Professors said:
I'd much rather we exchanged Gibraltar for Ceuta,much nicer beach.Or perhaps another of Spain's African possessions,they still have a bit of empire.

Westdene Seagull said:
We could just give back NI to Eire and the whole problem of a backstop goes away ?

You see these are the sort of well thought out, reasoned cases that will really help my campaign to finally put to bed the ridiculous idea that Leave voters aren't too bright :thumbsup:

El Presidente · Jan 30, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
We could just give back NI to Eire and the whole problem of a backstop goes away ?

Why give it to Eire? Why not give them a choice of independence or being part of the EU but more importantly not part of the present set up.

NI costs taxpayers in the rest of the UK a fortune, so we as taxpayers would benefit. They voted to remain so could get their wish so they benefit, the backstop problem would automatically disappear as it would not be part of the rest of the UK and the remainder of May's agreement would then generate enough votes to pass at parliament, so Brexit would then proceed with no further uncertainty.

Westdene Seagull · Jan 30, 2019

nicko31 said:
If it is no deal, this needs to be ratified by the public, this was not the Brexit promised in 2016, who voted for WTO, breaking a peace treaty, job losses and hardship?

Whilst May's deal is crap, 52% voted for crap not chaos....

You remainers really need to get on the same page ..... according to [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION] we leavers didn't know what we voted for and now you say we did. No deal looming :thumbsup:

Westdene Seagull · Jan 30, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
You see these are the sort of well thought out, reasoned cases that will really help my campaign to finally put to bed the ridiculous idea that Leave voters aren't too bright

Go on then smart arse, why would we not allow NI to become part of Eire - I think we can do without the stoneage thinking of the DUP as being part of the UK ? It was a single island less than 100 years ago.

ADDITION : And NI doesn't seem to mind when it has other differences in law with the rest of the UK so quite why all of a sudden they mind being treated differently now is a puzzle.

A1X · Jan 30, 2019

Two Professors said:
Perhaps we could follow election rules and have one every five years?

Five years seems to be pushing it, we've had two in the last 3 and a half and could yet get another one in the next six months

Mellotron · Jan 30, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
****ing Tories

[tweet]1090526195354161152[/tweet]

Irresponsible *****. I can understand people not being fans of Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell etc but how anyone (Remain OR Leave) can seriously consider continuing to vote Tory following the last few months just blows my mind.

JC Footy Genius · Jan 30, 2019

Lincoln Imp said:
The question of whether our sovereign parliament should always follow a referendum result, irrespective of what information emerges after the vote, is an interesting one. Offered the hypothesis of a 1937 referendum on the subject of appeasement, one of this thread's more vociferous leavers said that he would rather have seen the Nazis taking over the country three years later than the results of such a referendum being disregarded. (In other words, better see Hitler flattening Westminster than see Westminster treading on one small petal of democracy.)

And of course hardly anyone is now suggesting that parliament simply disregards the 2016 referendum. It would be a matter for the people to decide.

But don't fear BCCM - I'm sure you'll get your way in the current situation.

There are some undemocratic loons saying we should disregard the referendum result...

Lincoln Imp said:
No one surpasses me in their distaste for these unpatriotic little oiks but we need to be wary of how we use the word 'compromise'. Moderate only by comparison, the deal on the table remains an extreme solution by all normal standards, leaving Britain a poorer and meaner place, its stature and influence reduced.

Of the three forward options mentioned by May [options were - her deal, no deal, or no Brexit] only one offers this country the kind of future its children deserve. To get there Parliament will have to run the gauntlet but it's a risk worth taking - the HoC took a chance when it appointed Churchill and now is the time to do it again. Rise up, backbenchers. This nightmare can be stopped.

Mellotron · Jan 30, 2019

Simster said:
Hell, even when the Tories are this appalling, socialist-led Labour are still nowhere near them, sadly - and I mean "sadly". I'm not socialist but they would do no worse than this shower. So yes, your lone voice does not make you wrong, but it is devoid of any pragmatism.U.

Simster - the rest of your post is superb and I endorse it fully but I have to pick up on this comment, which has bizarrely become a truism recently - as seen also stated as fact on Question Night the other week.

It's bollocks. Most polls show Labour with a narrow lead at the moment. Does it mean they'll get more votes in the next GE? No, but to say they're nowhere near is frankly a bit bizarre.

nicko31 · Jan 30, 2019

Mellotron said:
Irresponsible *****. I can understand people not being fans of Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell etc but how anyone (Remain OR Leave) can seriously consider continuing to vote Tory following the last few months just blows my mind.

Can't believe I voted for them in 2010, we all make errors of judgement

So much damage in small amount of time they held a majority government

WATFORD zero · Jan 30, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Go on then smart arse, why would we not allow NI to become part of Eire - I think we can do without the stoneage thinking of the DUP as being part of the UK ? It was a single island less than 100 years ago.

ADDITION : And NI doesn't seem to mind when it has other differences in law with the rest of the UK so quite why all of a sudden they mind being treated differently now is a puzzle.

Well for starters, the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the United Kingdom. It was written into the Good Friday Agreement that if the majority of people in Northern Ireland (and the Republic of Ireland) want Northern Ireland to be part of the Republic of Ireland then that’s what will happen.

It's probably also worth noting that Northern Ireland has never been part of the Republic of Ireland so there is no previous historical state to return to. (As far as I know, it still is a single Island :facepalm:

) When what is now the Republic of Ireland was formed as the Irish Free State, Northern Ireland chose to opt out and form its own distinct region so the Republic has only ever been the 26 counties.

The last time Ireland was independently united was around 1011 when the regional rulers recognised Brian Boru as king but even that only lasted a year. The only time that Ireland has been united as a political entity has been under British rule so it would almost make more sense to ask why doesn’t the Republic of Ireland return to the UK to have a united Ireland again?

But you have been backed into a corner and are now so desperate for any kind of Brexit, you really don't care who gets f***ed over in your desperation. With each desperate lurch to find an answer to implementing Brexit, you just open up another can of worms :shrug:

ManOfSussex · Jan 30, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
You remainers really need to get on the same page ..... according to [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION] we leavers didn't know what we voted for and now you say we did. No deal looming

You don't care about the Good Friday Agreement.
You don't care about your country staying together, it's international reputation and economic, political, diplomatic or legal standing.
You don't care about, have any concept of, who gets screwed over by, at home or abroad, in regards to the chaos of no deal.

But you do care about cheering it all on, and point scoring at people who say it can't happen, because we won't be functioning as a country if it were to occur, and who assume we'll row back from replacing our current joke status as a country with that of pariah.

It's one thing about Brexit, amongst many, it reveals a great deal about who and what people are.

vegster · Jan 30, 2019

Mellotron said:
Irresponsible *****. I can understand people not being fans of Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell etc but how anyone (Remain OR Leave) can seriously consider continuing to vote Tory following the last few months just blows my mind.

It never ceases to amaze me when I hear PMQ 's and May accuses Labour and Corbyn of being a potential shitstorm of disaster, recession and poverty.... While overseeing the rise of Food Banks, homelessness, in work poverty, cuts to vital services, the Police..... Oh yes Mrs May, you are doing so well.

nicko31 · Jan 30, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
You don't care about the Good Friday Agreement.
You don't care about your country staying together, it's international reputation and economic, political, diplomatic or legal standing.
You don't care about, have any concept of, who gets screwed over by, at home or abroad, in regards to the chaos of no deal.

But you do care about cheering it all on, and point scoring at people who say it can't happen, because we won't be functioning as a country if it were to occur and assume we'll row back from replacing our current our current joke status as a country with that of pariah.

It's one thing about Brexit, amongst many, it reveals a great deal about who people are.

I think there are some (not an insignificant minority) that just want chaos or have just got so entrenched in their views there is no way out. Its almost like a medical condition...

Mellotron · Jan 30, 2019

Green Cross Code Man said:
Well they usually do regarding a once in a lifetime event. But I'm not surprised at your stance. Many other people who voted remain also have low regard for democracy.

What on earth makes you think it's once in a lifetime?! If we leave, chances are - given the voting demographics - we'll be back in the EU within 10-15 years, quite probably sooner tbh.

Ernest · Jan 30, 2019

Corbyn summed up May nicely at PMQ's, I don't understand a word of that answer and doubt anyone else did as she ummed and ahhed her way through a nonsensical answer to a straight forward question needing a simple answer about what compromises she would make.

No chance of there being any kind of deal sellable and todays newspaper headlines will be trash by tomorrow

ManOfSussex · Jan 30, 2019

nicko31 said:
I think there are some (not an insignificant minority) that just want chaos or have just got so entrenched in their views there is no way out. Its almost like a medical condition...

It's Brexit at any cost. Politically as this plays out, the view of that not insignificant minority of English Brexit voters, who couldn't care less about Northern Ireland, will have to be to factored into things. When it is, the Unionist community anger at betrayal won't be confined to Ireland though.

Mellotron · Jan 30, 2019

nicko31 said:
Can't believe I voted for them in 2010, we all make errors of judgement

So much damage in small amount of time they held a majority government

I can understand why you did in 2010. I have never voted for them before but wouldn't rule out ever voting for them. But this past couple of years is a genuinely special level of shithousery.

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