[Politics] Brexit

Triggaaar · Apr 3, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
Can't help but agree with this. Corbyn is being set up.

peterward said:
I cannot stand Corbyn, but I agree...... He will dip his hands in the blood and have his name associated with it all and share equal blame, or he'll again try and pull out, talk it down and be branded as petty, not a statesmen and acting in party interest.

What exactly is the problem for Corbyn if he simply consults Labour MPs to get an agreement on what they want (for example, a form of soft Brexit), and then puts that to May?

If she rejects it, he (and Labour) tried.
If she goes with it, and we leave with a soft Brexit, what exactly is the problem for Corbyn? I don't buy this 'well he's got blood on his hands now' argument, because we don't have a majority government, and sorting out Brexit is down to all MPs - the idea that the leader of nearly half the house can take no responsibility for his MPs is preposterous.

CHAPPERS · Apr 3, 2019

I wonder if she'll get away with this

Caroline Johnson, a Tory, asks about the risk of a no-deal Brexit compared to the risk to the country from a “Marxist, antisemite-led government”.

Two Professors · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
This country is a bit strange.

[tweet]1113391427050930176[/tweet]

Always used to be the silhouette of a German soldier in my day-progress,eh.Perhaps it was just like the aircraft recognition pictures,making sure they shot the right one?

Two Professors · Apr 3, 2019

Looks like Corbin and May have merged in this one:-

beorhthelm · Apr 3, 2019

Triggaaar said:
What exactly is the problem for Corbyn if he simply consults Labour MPs to get an agreement on what they want (for example, a form of soft Brexit), and then puts that to May?

If she rejects it, he (and Labour) tried.
If she goes with it, and we leave with a soft Brexit, what exactly is the problem for Corbyn? I don't buy this 'well he's got blood on his hands now' argument, because we don't have a majority government, and sorting out Brexit is down to all MPs - the idea that the leader of nearly half the house can take no responsibility for his MPs is preposterous.

i dont see a down side for Corbyn, and May's down side is limited by her leaving anyway.

many people say we need a more collaborative form of government, more negotiation, common purpose. then when leaders actually suggest doing that, everyone says it a trap. i say this a someone who thinks May has peter principled herself into PM, and Corbyn government would be very worst thing for this country, at least give them a chance to see if they can discuss and reach a resolution.

Bold Seagull · Apr 3, 2019

Triggaaar said:
What exactly is the problem for Corbyn if he simply consults Labour MPs to get an agreement on what they want (for example, a form of soft Brexit), and then puts that to May?

If she rejects it, he (and Labour) tried.
If she goes with it, and we leave with a soft Brexit, what exactly is the problem for Corbyn? I don't buy this 'well he's got blood on his hands now' argument, because we don't have a majority government, and sorting out Brexit is down to all MPs - the idea that the leader of nearly half the house can take no responsibility for his MPs is preposterous.

I agree. Corbyn and his party stood on a manifesto, a link to which I posted earlier, that set out Labour's view on Brexit. If the PM offers to move toward that, then they have a responsibility to collaborate, and anything less would be a dereliction of duty and far more damaging to them.

pastafarian · Apr 3, 2019

nicko31 said:
If the ERG want Brexit, then FFS vote for May's deal. We're in this state of deadlock because they think unicorns still exist, they don't...

When are they going to face the reality of their own lies, they need to do the right thing and own up to all those they conned.

And where are Farage, Davis, Boris now? All run away, lining their pockets while good honest people are counting the cost of being misled...

Perhaps those MPs who object to the EU/UK deal but would miraculously and suddenly find the deal acceptable if another referendum was a conditional attachment to it should vote for the deal that they would approve anyway in such circumstances along with the ERG.

Lies eh?

Triggaaar · Apr 3, 2019

beorhthelm said:
i dont see a down side for Corbyn, and May's down side is limited by her leaving anyway.

Indeed, perhaps Chappers & peterward can say why they think it is so awful for Corbyn.

many people say we need a more collaborative form of government, more negotiation, common purpose. then when leaders actually suggest doing that, everyone says it a trap.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have faith that May will listen to alternatives (not that I have faith that Corbyn will do what's right for the country either). It might just be May pretending to listen, when she isn't. But that doesn't make it a trap for Corbyn - if she doesn't listen, that doesn't damage Corbyn.

So apparently the argument goes that Labour agree to a soft Brexit, so we get a soft Brexit, and the Tories get to share the blame of that with Labour. Well yeah, that's how parliament works in this country, particularly when we don't have a majority government. Yes Labour would be partly responsible for the Brexit we get, but that doesn't mean 'it's a trap' - that's MPs taking responsibility and running the country. That's their ****ing job!

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

After two years of Brexit deadlock, intransigence and a seven-hour cabinet meeting, the best the prime minister can do is invite the leader of the British Labour party to become the co-owner of her Brexit failure. Let me ask her, had she been the leader of the opposition, and invited into a trap like this, would she have been foolish enough to accept? - Stewart Hosie, SNP, Dundee East at PMQ's.

Baldseagull · Apr 3, 2019

pastafarian said:
Completely missing the point.
Leave does not need to win again, that one off decision on leaving or remaining has been taken.
If in years to come there is a referendum on rejoining/staying out and rejoin wins, i would be equally horrified if a potential pro stay out parliament at that time tried to manipulate parliamentary votes so that the vote was done again.
Be careful what you wish for.

Do you really think that there would be no case for a ratification referendum on a rejoin vote, if rejoining the EU was sold as simple to do, could have the rebate, could keep sterling, would not be part of Schengen, voluntary only participation in EU defence forces, and then it became apparent that none of that was true?

Simster · Apr 3, 2019

The Clamp said:
Brexiteers squealing “you will respect the vote”!! sound like weak supply teachers trying to control a class.

Indeed. And of course, where all the resignations from outraged ERG and loons?

All mouth and no trousers.

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

Corbyn meeting May at 1430.

Among others Rebecca Long-Bailey will be present. She'll be the one calling the shots and another referendum will be well down the list of priorities, if on it at all.

Triggaaar · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
After two years of Brexit deadlock, intransigence and a seven-hour cabinet meeting, the best the prime minister can do is invite the leader of the British Labour party to become the co-owner of her Brexit failure. Let me ask her, had she been the leader of the opposition, and invited into a trap like this, would she have been foolish enough to accept? - Stewart Hosie, SNP, Dundee East at PMQ's.

Pathetic.

CHAPPERS · Apr 3, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Indeed, perhaps Chappers & peterward can say why they think it is so awful for Corbyn.
!

This part, from the article I linked to in the post

On the surface she appears open to accepting Labour’s idea of a soft Brexit – but her plan looks distinctly like a trap. Theresa May is sinking, and she’s trying to drag Corbyn down with her. She knows full well that the EU won’t countenance any binding changes to her deal. The best Corbyn could hope for from these talks would be a bit of aspirational language in the political declaration about trying to secure a customs union.

With May having promised to step down if her deal passes to make way for an extreme Brexiteer, that language won’t be worth the paper it’s written on.

WATFORD zero · Apr 3, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
Any second referendum should be May's Deal or Remain. This No Deal bullshit has got to stop.

Nobody really believes No Deal can be a success, apart from those who can personally profit from it.

I think there is a certain group who, regardless of any information to the contrary, still believe 'no deal' can be a success if 'we believe in it'.

Or are you suggesting that some of our more vociferous 'no deal' posters on here are really undercover hedge fund managers

Triggaaar · Apr 3, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
This part, from the article I linked to in the post

Yeah that's nonsense.

"She knows full well that the EU won’t countenance any binding changes to her deal."

What? If we go to the EU and say we want to be in the single market, that's something we could arrange an agreement on. They're not going to say no. And even if they did say no, how does that harm Corbyn?

"With May having promised to step down if her deal passes to make way for an extreme Brexiteer, that language won’t be worth the paper it’s written on."
What nonsense. Firstly, her deal didn't pass. If we go with something else, she doesn't need to resign. Secondly, even if she does, and we get a new leader who then ignores what May agrees with Corbyn, so what? That doesn't damage Corbyn either.

This is all bullshit written by columnists with an agenda.

CHAPPERS · Apr 3, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Yeah that's nonsense.

"She knows full well that the EU won’t countenance any binding changes to her deal."

What? If we go to the EU and say we want to be in the single market, that's something we could arrange an agreement on. They're not going to say no. And even if they did say no, how does that harm Corbyn?

"With May having promised to step down if her deal passes to make way for an extreme Brexiteer, that language won’t be worth the paper it’s written on."
What nonsense. Firstly, her deal didn't pass. If we go with something else, she doesn't need to resign. Secondly, even if she does, and we get a new leader who then ignores what May agrees with Corbyn, so what? That doesn't damage Corbyn either.

This is all bullshit written by columnists with an agenda.

But haven't the EU said, if this May deadline is going to happen, that the WA will NOT be reopened?

Or have I lost track of this shitshow?

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

Hampster Gull said:
May and the Tories doing a great job for the country.....the worst PM and government, ever. Now o e of two things, rescued by Marxist Corbyn or negotiating in bad faith with them to blame them for a hard Brexit.

There will never be a hard Brexit.

CHAPPERS · Apr 3, 2019

Triggaaar said:
This is all bullshit written by columnists with an agenda.

Actually it's written by an MP with an agenda (that she sticks to).

nicko31 · Apr 3, 2019

pastafarian said:
Perhaps those MPs who object to the EU/UK deal but would miraculously and suddenly find the deal acceptable if another referendum was a conditional attachment to it should vote for the deal that they would approve anyway in such circumstances along with the ERG.

Lies eh?

English is your first language isn't it? Would you mind just rewriting your sentence. Read it 5 times and can't fathom out what you are trying to ask.......

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