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[Albion] Knockaert joins Fulham on initial one-year loan



Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

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Feb 23, 2012
21,616
Brighton
b.w.2. said:
Good summary. So my question to the Knocky knockers is who do they think we have who is better than Knocky in his position?
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I’m not a Knocky-Knocker but your question needs to be subdivided into ‘who is better suited to playing under CH & who is better suited playing Potterball’?

Izzy is the best winger I’ve seen us use in the Premier League but injury and form is against him currently.

Knocky has been almost as good as March with Ali-J and Locadia behind them.

However, this is Potter’s team now. I’m hoping that his style of football will bring to mind the Izzy goal at Stoke, the one with world class movement and touch where March and Stephens were superb in the build up. Is Knocky really our best winger at playing that style? I think Izzy and March have better movement and won’t slow down fast passing attacks - Knocky would and frequently has done as he takes the ball and tries to decide whether or not to beat a man, assist or shoot with an easy quick forward and progressive pass being turned down time and time again.

Knocky might well be our best winger in a number of measure but he is not the man for Potterball.
 




N

NorthStandSteward

New member
Jan 14, 2014
117
Hugo Rune said:
I’m not a Knocky-Knocker but your question needs to be subdivided into ‘who is better suited to playing under CH & who is better suited playing Potterball’?

Izzy is the best winger I’ve seen us use in the Premier League but injury and form is against him currently.

Knocky has been almost as good as March with Ali-J and Locadia behind them.

However, this is Potter’s team now. I’m hoping that his style of football will bring to mind the Izzy goal at Stoke, the one with world class movement and touch where March and Stephens were superb in the build up. Is Knocky really our best winger at playing that style? I think Izzy and March have better movement and won’t slow down fast passing attacks - Knocky would and frequently has done as he takes the ball and tries to decide whether or not to beat a man, assist or shoot with an easy quick forward and progressive pass being turned down time and time again.

Knocky might well be our best winger in a number of measure but he is not the man for Potterball.
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Knocky almost as goood as March?

Miles ahead in my humble opinion, if March wasn't a local lad I suspect he'd get a far tougher time on this forum.
 




B

blockhseagull

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2006
7,349
Southampton
NorthStandSteward said:
Knocky almost as goood as March?

Miles ahead in my humble opinion, if March wasn't a local lad I suspect he'd get a far tougher time on this forum.
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As a team player .... AK is considerably behind March.

Don’t doubt that AK can be better with the ball when he is on form. However he doesn’t offer very much without it, apart from diving into tackles and waving his arms about.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

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Oct 24, 2005
50,171
Goldstone
Stat Brother said:
AK is nowhere near as good as the AK being discussed on this thread.
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Perhaps you're reading the compliments on his ability as if we're comparing him to the best the division has to offer. We're not, we're comparing him to the rest of our team. Personally, I think a fit Jose is our best winger when fit, but he's out injured and we don't know if he'll ever be the same. So without Jose, AK is decent when compared with his peers.

The fact that he was still better than all the others with those really really piss poor stats says more about the team last season than it does able AK's 'brilliance'.
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Well yeah, it does say a lot about the team last season, but I don't get your point. We're not Man City. Whomever you'd say our best attacking player was, was still not very good compared to decent players from other teams, but that doesn't mean we should ditch them.
 




W

Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
8,434
Pavilionaire said:
There's more to this deal than meets the eye. Personally, I'd rather have moved on Ali J than Knocky but his stats in the Prem aren't great, he's temperamental, mentally fragile, high wages, a potential red card and 28 so getting last his prime.

It's a poor price but an indication that we want to move him on. On the other hand, a million for this lad Richards could be a great bit of business. I think bringing in Maupay will bring some cheer.
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I think you are right and if Maupay comes in then it might turn out well. I do wonder if there is some sort of issue at the club ( out of hours discipline) which has been somewhat been masked by the success of the last 4 years.
 


Johnny RoastBeef

Johnny RoastBeef

These aren't the players you're looking for.
Jan 11, 2016
3,157
Hugo Rune said:
I’m not a Knocky-Knocker but your question needs to be subdivided into ‘who is better suited to playing under CH & who is better suited playing Potterball’?

Izzy is the best winger I’ve seen us use in the Premier League but injury and form is against him currently.

Knocky has been almost as good as March with Ali-J and Locadia behind them.

However, this is Potter’s team now. I’m hoping that his style of football will bring to mind the Izzy goal at Stoke, the one with world class movement and touch where March and Stephens were superb in the build up. Is Knocky really our best winger at playing that style? I think Izzy and March have better movement and won’t slow down fast passing attacks - Knocky would and frequently has done as he takes the ball and tries to decide whether or not to beat a man, assist or shoot with an easy quick forward and progressive pass being turned down time and time again.

Knocky might well be our best winger in a number of measure but he is not the man for Potterball.
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Spot on. His stats on the right of a midfield 4 are ok, but when asked to play further up in a front 3 his figures drop off.

This doesn't fill me with confidence that he would be suited to playing on the right of a 3 in the 4231 formation that Potter seems to prefer.
 






S

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,830
GOSBTS
Tyrone Biggums said:
Well if he's going better to get it done today so he can be at the ground and the fans and he can say goodbye to each other.
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I can’t imagine anything worse than a send off goodbye at Aldershot...
 


brighton_tom

brighton_tom

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Jul 23, 2008
4,817
Will we see a direct replacement for AK if he goes? Surely some first team signings on the way...
 


DJ NOBO

DJ NOBO

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Jul 18, 2004
6,334
Wiltshire
To those who would see Knockaert head to Fulham for a modest fee....
Palace away.
Strip away the emotion and that it’s palace, for a moment .....on a footballing level, how many of our players have it them to produce a moment like that?
I’m struggling.
People get hung up on his weaknesses. He certainly has many.
But what about his strengths.
Unless we are planning to seriously upgrade, we will regret selling him.
 




Wellesley

Wellesley

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Jul 24, 2013
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Dale Jasper said:
To those who would see Knockaert head to Fulham for a modest fee....
Palace away.
Strip away the emotion and that it’s palace, for a moment .....on a footballing level, how many of our players have it them to produce a moment like that?
I’m struggling.
People get hung up on his weaknesses. He certainly has many.
But what about his strengths.
Unless we are planning to seriously upgrade, we will regret selling him.
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Very true. I think he is getting judged harshly by a few because he isn't ripping up the Premier League like he did the Championship. He has still produced performances and moments of magic that few of our other players can match.
 


kevo

kevo

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Mar 8, 2008
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Stat Brother

Stat Brother

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Triggaaar said:
Perhaps you're reading the compliments on his ability as if we're comparing him to the best the division has to offer. We're not, we're comparing him to the rest of our team. Personally, I think a fit Jose is our best winger when fit, but he's out injured and we don't know if he'll ever be the same. So without Jose, AK is decent when compared with his peers.

Well yeah, it does say a lot about the team last season, but I don't get your point. We're not Man City. Whomever you'd say our best attacking player was, was still not very good compared to decent players from other teams, but that doesn't mean we should ditch them.
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I'm reading the complements on his ability as throwbacks to his legendary Championship status.
The best stats in a bad team doesn't automatically equal the best player and one worthy of Premier League status.

AK's stats from last season, or the season before, are not 'Premier League' quality.
I'll hazard a guess there are Cardiff and Fulham players who out shine him. (a sad indictment on the whole team)
 




E

Ecosse Exile

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May 20, 2009
3,549
Alicante, Spain
Triggaaar said:
That's without having a 'highest earner' clause. A highest earner clause would mean either a) we don't sign anyone on more than that player, or b) that player gets an automatic pay rise. They wouldn't also get an extra year on their contract, and if they had a highest earner clause they wouldn't have to accept another year on their contract either. In your example, if Dunk chose to stay as he was and run down his existing contract, then he would be on less money than the new signing, so he clearly wouldn't have a highest earner clause, as he wouldn't be the highest earner.

Since we started our journey to the PL, fees and wages have risen, so it makes sense that we'd have been surprised. Not many players can expect to get a 'highest earner' clause though. To get that they need to be good enough that everyone thinks they'll be the best player we have for the next 5 years. That should never be the case for a defender outside the top few clubs (IMO). It shouldn't be the case for any Championship player if the destination is the PL, where we would obviously need to sign better players.

And we'd have simply said that we'll need to be signing even better players if we're to make a success of the PL. He wasn't getting offers from PL teams, he loved it here and needed stability after the loss of his father, so he wasn't in such a great bargaining position to be making such demands.

Who were we going to lose him to? PL teams weren't after him.
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So we just top up his wages without being contractually obliged to do so, dont think so, each new contract has to be negotiated, the only thing that has been guaranteed by his previous contract would be that his wages would match that of the new signing, you would imagine the club trying to get such a clause removed, especially after promotion, equally Dunks agent would refuse, the common ground being a long contract, Dunk remains on a par with any incoming player, we secure our most valuable asset for a longer term ensuring a good return can be made if he is sold. If Dunk refuses the new contract and is no longer highest earner that is his perogative, but it is still there to be negotiated as and when.

In your opinion a defender shouldn't be the best player for anyone but top few clubs and certainly not for a championship club aiming for the premier league where they will sign better players, yet here we are in our 3rd season in the premier league and that championship defender is still our best player. Tarkowski is Burnleys and Maguire appears to be Leicesters, there are probably other examples but thats just off the top of my head.

Knockys bargaining position had never been better, dont believe the club acting humanely over the death of his father would even be a cosideration for his agent, he had already had an offer from Newcastle the previous summer, who were of course joining us in the Premier league and of course others would have been interested in the championship pots, its daft to think otherwise just because any interest wasnt made public.
 


kevo

kevo

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Mar 8, 2008
9,094
Mo Gosfield said:
I agree....but some on here are making out that he is some sort of talismanic genius.
It's too rose-tinted for me. Very good in the Championship, which is his true level. Unfortunately, he makes far too many basic,simple errors at PL level and that is why he doesn't hold down a regular place in the starting line-up. He lays the ball off without looking, over and over again. He drove CH to distraction. He hasn't got the delicacy of touch that you would expect either. His dead-balls are all very similar. All whipped in with pace and mostly overhit.
On the other hand, he is frustratingly capable of moments of brilliance. These are few and far between at the highest level because he is up against much more clever players, who know how to unsettle him and ruffle him up. The moment he tries to overplay, its a lost ball and the opposition are in possession.
Believe it or not, I like Knocky and have huge respect for what he did in the Championship but he has driven me mad in the PL with his inability to knuckle down and simplify his style. This is his achilles heel. When he stops over playing, keeps the ball moving quickly and simply, he looks a different player. Unfortunately, he cannot stop reverting to type ( loose extravagance ) which then moves him more towards being a liabilty and indicates a lack of footballing nous.
He is a top of the ground, seat of the pants, heart on the sleeve, emotional, complex mixture, that can work at a lower level. The PL is a cold, calculating, ruthless environment, not best suited to him.
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He is far from perfect. Everyone acknowledges his shortcomings. But who have we got that is better?
 


Stat Brother

Stat Brother

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kevo said:
He is far from perfect. Everyone acknowledges his shortcomings. But who have we got that is better?
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Now that the transfer window has slammed shut. :rolleyes:
 


Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

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Feb 23, 2012
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WATFORD zero said:
It was only after he left and went back to United that I realised Lingard is a great example of this. He hardly ever takes people on, very rarely touches the ball more than twice and rarely loses possession. That is the type of attacking player the Premier League demands and is almost the polar opposite to Knocky.
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We may have a player like this.

A Potter-coached Ali-J this season? Let’s see!
 








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