[Politics] Brexit

BensGrandad · Mar 14, 2019

I may be naive but in my view if the constituents voted leave then that is the way their MP should vote and vice versa irrespective of their own personal view or agenda. Is that not what they were put in power to do, act for their constituents

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2019

LadySeagull said:
To me, the people who voted remain have completely chickened out.

Sorry.

You call remainers chickens yet in a subsequent post you’re commenting on name calling. Okay.

Barham's tash · Mar 14, 2019

Kalimantan Gull said:
But you're not the only citizens of this country. You might have won the vote to leave but it doesn't follow that only you can decide how we leave. And there's plenty of leavers supporting this deal.

I didn’t actually vote leave and don’t want to leave; in the absence of remaining I wanted a no deal brexit to show the leavers what an absolute muddling cluster **** they voted for and caused OR i wanted a straight forward path to a second referendum and potential redemption for what is going to be the single biggest mistake this country will ever make.

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Chicken Run · Mar 14, 2019

BensGrandad said:
I may be naive but in my view if the constituents voted leave then that is the way their MP should vote and vice versa irrespective of their own personal view or agenda. Is that not what they were put in power to do, act for their constituents

Indeed

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2019

Gwylan said:
They have, several times. They're in the minority though so it's never going to get through

No, Tories own this mess, the whole caboodle.

Indeed. From start to finish the whole sorry mess belongs to the Tories.

Chicken Run · Mar 14, 2019

SussexSeahawk said:
Here's my analogy. There are 100 people who have are all going to a restaurant together. For some reason the rule is that at whatever restaurant they choose, everyone has to have the same meal. They get outside a restaurant and everyone looks at the menu and 52 people say they are happy with eating at that restaurant. But then they get inside and realise that actually some people voted because for the restaurant because they wanted the chicken, others wanted the steak etc. and actually there's no single option that 50 people were happy with. If they'd have voted outside for which meal they were having at the restaurant, that would be democratic. But getting inside the restaurant and being forced into an option that less than 50% of people want because leaving the restaurant would be an affront to democracy is stupid.

Sounds like a standard office Christmas party to me?

sully · Mar 14, 2019

LadySeagull said:
How can people honestly be comfortable that what was just a Trade Agreement has us so tightly encapsulated that we can't get out when the majority of the country wants to? So you all think, well we'll just sit down and shut up then...

But we CAN get out of it. A deal has been agreed. It’s just that our parliament, who you think will be much better at looking after our future, won’t accept it. Some because it’s too soft, others because it’s too hard. They clearly have no intention of compromising for the good of the country.

So far, they have ruled out everything that I assume those who voted to leave wanted and we are left with remaining or keeping most of the rules with no means to influence how they might change in the future.

I see no point in a “Norway type” agreement, as it’s no better than remaining.

The leavers have been sold down the river but don’t seem to realise.

How are we ever going to get the leave that most wanted and make our own way in the world?

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
I think you must be getting a little over excited at the prospect of finding out what you voted for 3 years ago.

I was no more than a somewhat bemused spectator whilst you were arguing with and telling a first team player that you knew better than he did, what was going on in the changing room

And I note that you still think that you were right and he was wrong but I'm sure you know best, just like 'no deal'

He’s unbelievable. He did a similar with me and my industry. I don’t know it all, but I felt I offered a knowledgable piece based on fact and 25 years first hand experience. But he knew better, and when he realised he didn’t flounced off and started o use insults.

sully · Mar 14, 2019

BensGrandad said:
I may be naive but in my view if the constituents voted leave then that is the way their MP should vote and vice versa irrespective of their own personal view or agenda. Is that not what they were put in power to do, act for their constituents

But if their constituents voted leave, should they support Teresa May’s deal or “no deal”?

Bold Seagull · Mar 14, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Offer an alternative?

Which they have done consistently.

Rodney Thomas · Mar 14, 2019

neilbard said:
A quick recap, this is what happens when a **** calls for a referendum loses said referendum then resigns.

May is then in the hot seat, what does she do completely wrecks her majority by calling a GE, she and her cronies have no plan for Brexit whatsoever.

Then a bunch of clowns in parliament unanimously vote to invoke article 50 and then pass a law knowing there is absolutely no plan, then brilliantly (a master stroke) the negotiations are carried out by a bunch remainers.

Meanwhile the opposition party is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

RIP UK politics.

You couldn't make this shite up.

Pretty sure that’s not true. Where is [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] when you need him :lolol:

Blue Valkyrie · Mar 14, 2019

BensGrandad said:
I may be naive but in my view if the constituents voted leave then that is the way their MP should vote and vice versa irrespective of their own personal view or agenda. Is that not what they were put in power to do, act for their constituents

MPs have a duty to act in the best interests of all their constituents - even those that didn't vote.

So if 50+% of their constituents voted one way then you are right.

However, MPs do not have the luxury of ignoring those that did not vote - for these they have to judge what is in their best interests.

For a constituency where 34% voted remain, 33% leave and 33% didn't vote, the MP should use their judgement on what is best for the 33% non-voters and that may not be what the 34% 'majority' voted for.

nicko31 · Mar 14, 2019

Probably best chance of unity in the country and preserving the very existence of the United Kingdom is to go ahead with Brexit but keep a customs union and some level SM membership.

The benefits of leaving going it alone are hot air. The fact no Brexiteer on here has here has ever managed to provide examples of trade opportunities that exceed what we already have says it all

Time for the real British patriots in parliament to make their move

Bold Seagull · Mar 14, 2019

sully said:
But we CAN get out of it. A deal has been agreed. It’s just that our parliament, who you think will be much better at looking after our future, won’t accept it. Some because it’s too soft, others because it’s too hard. They clearly have no intention of compromising for the good of the country.

So far, they have ruled out everything that I assume those who voted to leave wanted and we are left with remaining or keeping most of the rules with no means to influence how they might change in the future.

I see no point in a “Norway type” agreement, as it’s no better than remaining.

The leavers have been sold down the river but don’t seem to realise.

How are we ever going to get the leave that most wanted and make our own way in the world?

Making our own way in the world is surely about striking the best trade deals?

What country around the world is going to give the UK, a much smaller market than the EU - a better deal than they give the EU?

I’ll have a stab at it, none. There is no country that will undermine their deal with the EU but under cutting it for the UK.

The fear of a customs union trapping us is a complete misnomer. A smoke screen. What they want is the ability to deregulate and reduce employment rights, these fanciful ideas of wonderful trade deals is a con, masking what these hardline brexiteers really want.

Blue Valkyrie · Mar 14, 2019

nicko31 said:
Probably best chance of unity in the country and preserving the very existence of the United Kingdom is to go ahead with Brexit but keep a customs union and some level SM membership.

The benefits of leaving going it alone are hot air. The fact no Brexiteer on here has here has ever managed to provide examples of trade opportunities that exceed what we already have says it all

Time for the real British patriots in parliament to make their move

Yes, indeed. That is the 'Holy Grail' best outcome.

But while some MPs still pursue the 'Fools Gold' 2nd referendum, which will unite nothing regardless of result, that it will never happen.

Brightonfan1983 · Mar 14, 2019

Icy Gull said:
Anyone changed their mind?

I am not in favour of one but that’s not the question.

I was thinking this just last night (whether to do a poll on here, not whether there should be another vote). Knowing everything we know now, the leave/remain argument is nothing but idealogical. Hence the mess.

Sussex Nomad · Mar 14, 2019

Unfortunately we can't change MPs that can't think for their constituents, we just vote in more of the same, choice is limited. The day a politician actually represents the voters is not going to happen in my lifetime. Even if they wanted to they get 'whipped' into cat and mouse cross party politics. They are basically all in it for themselves, not us. The mandate was clear, the majority of the population voted out, MPs cannot stomach what the majority asked and therefore voted for themselves. That is democracy as seen by 650 idiots sitting in the Palace of Westminster.

Blue Valkyrie · Mar 14, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
Making our own way in the world is surely about striking the best trade deals?

What country around the world is going to give the UK, a much smaller market than the EU - a better deal than they give the EU?

I’ll have a stab at it, none. There is no country that will undermine their deal with the EU but under cutting it for the UK.

The fear of a customs union trapping us is a complete misnomer. A smoke screen. What they want is the ability to deregulate and reduce employment rights, these fanciful ideas of wonderful trade deals is a con, masking what these hardline brexiteers really want.

And, of course, Norway and Switzerland etc , do make their own trade deals to supplement the ones they get through the EU.

It is all about a rich elite - in an unholy alliance with foreign bad actors - deregulating the economy and making money, nothing, as you say, to do with trade.

A customs arrangement for Northern Ireland is the tricky bit. We need to dump the DUP red line about using the Irish Sea - which means getting some of labour on board for the votes.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2019

Rees-Mogg is very selective and self-serving (yes, I know, as if we thought anything else). He’s now stating last night wasn’t binding. Just like the original referendum then?

The Clamp · Mar 14, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
Very good point. Two heavy defeats, it shouldn’t be allowed a third.

She keeps insisting it’s voted on until she get me her way. Why not use the same logic and give us a second referendum?

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