[Politics] Brexit

Hotchilidog · Mar 14, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
Can someone explain, should there be another ref/vote/survey blah blah and Leave win again, where would that put these 'we want a second bash' merchants? They'd just find another way to sabotage a democratic process.

In what way are ALL sides sabotaging the democratic process. This is all about the government failing to secure a consensus on implementing the result of the referendum and pursuing a course that they KNEW would not pass through parliament, but persevered anyway. This to me is utterly negligent. The national interest is not being served by the government, and neither ironically is it's own party interests. This deal was not the only possible, other options were available, and still are should the PM finally agree to seriously talk to other voices in the house.

When people voted leave, some thought we were getting a hard Brett, some thought we may take up a Norway style option (pointless in my view but I suspect enough remainers could live with it), some thought other things. Yet apparently May knows best, she has kicked her dead deal down so far down the road we are literally a few days away from a potentially damaging reckoning. From a position of weakness May has tried to bypass Parliament as much as she could, and yesterday she attempted to leave the most catastrophic option on the table, having said the day before she would not.

This is no way to govern a country, her position is totally untenable. A narrow referendum result should have lead to a solution that respected the vote of leavers and addressed the concerns of remainers, the opposite has happened. This country is divided, it is angry, the union is hanging by a thread, this has been a completely avoidable mess. May has supplanted Cameron as my worst PM of all time now. A terrible Home Secretary and now an even worse PM.

BigGully · Mar 14, 2019

Simster said:
I can't believe someone who has frequently used "could of" and "would of" on this thread has the NECK to pick up on what is clearly a typo with a missing letter.

Then again, fair play - language and spelling is important. I'm glad you're finally realising this.

Aaaaah my old friend Simeon has come on the scene, where you been .........

neilbard · Mar 14, 2019

clapham_gull said:
Probably best, you won't learn anything about Brexit.

This is the Tories mess and mainly the fault of Tory leavers voting against leaving.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

Please feel free to point out in my OP where I have stated that Brexit is Labours fault, I was merely pointing out that the option of a Labour government under Corbyn would not improve my confidence in politicians. :shrug:

To be honest I have never had much confidence in the majority of politicians anyway, so I suppose you could say that I haven't been disappointed. :wink:

Baldseagull · Mar 14, 2019

LadySeagull said:
Remain would not win a second referendum.

Most remainers I've read about (on here, in loads of articles - no, not in the Daily Mail - and talking to friends and colleagues) just don't want to know why people voted (and will vote) leave. Remainers do not get it, did not expect it, have made no effort to understand the views of people like me and simply branded us thick or uninformed. Well that's why the same will happen again, if a new referendum occurs.

It is stupidity to repeat the same behaviour expecting a different outcome. There would not be a different outcome because no remainer I've seen has bothered to try to understand all the different reasons up and down the country, that led to a 'leave' majority. Also, anyone who was on the fence before cannot possibly be on the fence now, and the 'on the fencers' voted for the status quo, as you would if unsure. Some of those will have shifted to a leave perspective in the past 2 years.

Whilst you might not be willing or able to listen to or attempt to understand why intelligent people (yep, like me) voted 'leave', by contrast, I can understand why most people I know voted remain. Usually they say things like they have family abroad/have a European wife, etc. I get that. It was about what was best for them in their bubble.

I voted because I believe leaving the EU would be better for the Country and I still believe that. Three of my kids are scientists, either employed or students, who will always need to collaborate abroad - and I still voted to leave. And they were on the fence remainers in 2016, didn't know enough about the issue.

Two of them would now vote leave.

I wasn't expecting the resulting mixture of sabotage and cock up though.

What are you expecting to get fixed by Brexit?

nicko31 · Mar 14, 2019

Blimey....

pb21 · Mar 14, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
Can someone explain, should there be another ref/vote/survey blah blah and Leave win again, where would that put these 'we want a second bash' merchants? They'd just find another way to sabotage a democratic process.

Because any second vote would be explicit and potentially instantly legally binding, such as in the proposal put forward by Peter Kyle.

Chicken Run · Mar 14, 2019

Mods can this thread now be merged with the other Brexit thread?

One Love · Mar 14, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
Let's be clear. What we've had is:

1) Boris Johnson - when Mayor of London fiercly in favour of both closer ties with the EU and the single market ("I would vote to stay in the single market," Johnson told Sky News in 2013. "I'm in favour of the single market. I want us to be able to trade freely with our European friends and partners.") - joining Vote Leave and putting a load of bollocks on a bus about the NHS, probably just to further his own political career, which has now seen his lardy backside atttached to a back bench. https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-brexit-speech-changed-his-mind-remain-2018-2?r=US&IR=T

2) A PM who promised the referendum failling to get the result he wanted in it and having to resign forthwith.

3) His replacement - a remain campaigner - left in charge of negotiating something she was against until said PM had to quit.

4) The replacement then calling an opportunist election as she thought Labour were split - only to find her own party even more split and her majority all but destroyed.

5) The destruction of said majority leaving the replacement former remainer no choice but to align with a very small number of Northern Irish extremists - when the key issue to getting Brexit delivered was always going to be the need to maintain the open Irish border as per the Good Friday agreement.

6) So much time being spent on forging this partnership and doing a terrible job of negotiating a Brexit she never believed in that Northern Ireland has not had a proper devolved government for 787 days and counting https://howlonghasnorthernirelandnothadagovernment.com/

7) Eventually coming back with a deal with the EU that was immedaitely obvious would not get past her own back bench or her Northern Irish crutch. Putting the same deal to the house twice (and counting) whilst ruling out a new referendum that would essentially do the same thing. Setting some kind of record for government defeats, the nadir of which was.....

8) A vote on no deal that ended up with a three line whip against, despite it being a government motion. The former remainer voting for a no deal Brexit and STILL losing. Cabinet split three ways.

Apart from that it's all gone swimmingly.

To be fair, the last half might of.

If it was the cunning plan all along to file article 50 (will of the people and all that) and then be forced to revoke it.

vegster · Mar 14, 2019

Postman Pat said:
Farage who complained about foreign governments meddling in UK politics, begging foreign governments to meddle in UK politics? Surely not.

Well, for Farage, Brexit is a business and always has been...... Anyway, anyone seen [MENTION=35289]Baker lite[/MENTION]?

Thunder Bolt · Mar 14, 2019

This Brexiteer made me laugh. That'll show 'em. :lolol:

[tweet]1106096739801591810[/tweet]

Simster · Mar 14, 2019

BigGully said:
Aaaaah my old friend Simeon has come on the scene, where you been .........

Around. Just very bored with this thread so I don't pop my head in that often:

1) The argument for Brexit is never explained on here beyond "you lost, most people disagree with you, get over it" so what's the point? Actually in fairness I can accept the socialist argument although I don't agree with it, but 95% of Brexiteers don't believe in socialism anyway.

2) At this point I think the only fair and indeed deliverable way to proceed is to pursue a soft Brexit, remaining inside the customs union and common market. Not ideal from a remain point of view, but honours the referendum result and reflects the closeness of the vote. What can't be allowed to happen are the posh tossers trying to push through no-deal like jobs don't matter. That's really all I care about now tbh. No-deal would be far less democratic than Jeremy Corbyn's (and mine) alternative outlined here.

A1X · Mar 14, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
This Brexiteer made me laugh. That'll show 'em.

[tweet]1106096739801591810[/tweet]

She clearly has no idea what taxation without representation actually means. If anything what she's actually arguing for is the vote to be extended to 16 year olds, that's true taxation without representation currently.

A1X · Mar 14, 2019

Quick reminder for everyone;

Thing which is democratic - bringing the same Withdrawal Agreement back to Parliament again and again until MPs change their minds
Thing which is undemocratic - letting the public change their minds

ManOfSussex · Mar 14, 2019

nicko31 said:
Blimey....

View attachment 105771

One fundamental problem - The DUP don't believe in evolution, they're creationists.

Ernest · Mar 14, 2019

nicko31 said:
Blimey....

View attachment 105771

Corruption at its worse

A1X · Mar 14, 2019

Blue Valkyrie said:
We need to ban future referendums in law, no point in letting unecessary poison be poured into society ever again.

I disagree, but I think it needs to be done on matters which are not as complicated or little understood.

For example, a referendum to change the national anthem would be something I would see no issue with, as it's a known quantity and ultimately isn't something which is going to directly impact millions of people in a potentially negative way.

Albumen · Mar 14, 2019

It was advisory, we looked into it, we worked out it's not a good idea. Are you sure you want to leave? It's only right we're asked again.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2019

BigGully said:
it's knowledgeable ........ just saying

Your correct! Who’d of thought it?

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2019

Simster said:
I can't believe someone who has frequently used "could of" and "would of" on this thread has the NECK to pick up on what is clearly a typo with a missing letter.

Then again, fair play - language and spelling is important. I'm glad you're finally realising this.

Trufflehound · Mar 14, 2019

Jim Hacker will be spinning in his grave. The UK has become a TPLEC (sic).

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[Politics] Brexit

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