[Politics] Brexit

birthofanorange · Mar 23, 2019

There is no logical reason to not have a second referendum - 'democracy' included.
Leavers should have no reason to oppose it unless they fear the (more informed) vote would go against them.
It's nothing more than common sense to see if it still is 'the will of the people', nearly 3 years on.
Things change.
I truly don't understand this insistance on gambling with the country's future, on the basis of a vote that was too simplistic in the first place.
We are allowed to change our minds, you know, so let's see if that is the case.

Peter Ward · Mar 23, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Or, simply, being a gold-plated thunderandlighteningcunt

I concur with your analysis but wasn't able to articulate it quite as well as you.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 23, 2019

Peter Ward said:
I concur with your analysis but wasn't able to articulate it quite as well as you.

Don't worry. It's a gift. :banana:

vegster · Mar 23, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Fewer Romanians shopping in Faversham Tesco. Oh, hang on, even the late PPF said we can have them here, as long as we send them home after they have picked all the fruit. Every October.

We can control our borders, so that no more Isis muslims can get here from Iraq. Oh, hang on, we can already do that.

We won't be forced to adopt the Euro. Oh, hang on.

We will have an extra £350 million quid a week to spend on the NHS. Oh, hang on, that was a genuine mistake, and Boris didn't really mean it.

We can stop the French forcing us to buy their straight bananas.

And, most importantly, we can go back to buying beer in Pints! ..

birthofanorange · Mar 23, 2019

vegster said:
And, most importantly, we can go back to buying beer in Pints! ..

Can I also return my Euro-super-army uniform to ASOS?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 23, 2019

birthofanorange said:
There is no logical reason to not have a second referendum - 'democracy' included.
Leavers should have no reason to oppose it unless they fear the (more informed) vote would go against them.
It's nothing more than common sense to see if it still is 'the will of the people', nearly 3 years on.
Things change.
I truly don't understand this insistance on gambling with the country's future, on the basis of a vote that was too simplistic in the first place.
We are allowed to change our minds, you know, so let's see if that is the case.

This.

And, indeed, If you recall how crestfallen Faridge was when the polls closed and he thought he'd lost, it begins to make more sense. The Brexit outcome was a bit like when the dull drab bloke asked the absolute stunner at work (gorgeous, kind, witty, modest, expert in flamenco and linguini) for a date and she said 'why not?'. With an outcome like that you wouldn't want anyone, not least the young lady in question, or her pals digging into this, exploring how the date might go, whether there would be kissing, etc. A deal is a ****ing deal, right?

The 'well, if we have a second, why not a third vote' gambit that dull sluggards uses as a riposte is disingenuous. Again I refer to the analogy of putting a deposit on an unseen property, then insisting on sticking to the bargain even when finding the prospectus was lies and the house is a ruin. Having rectified the mistake (and this will require the second vote delivering a remain outcome, likely but not a given), nobody, no matter how stupid, would still say **** it, an initial uninformed impulsive decision is a binding decision so, no, I won't cancel the deal or seek legal redress. I will pay the money and move in next week.

There again, quite a lot of committed Brexitters are stark staring bonkers :shrug:

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 23, 2019

vegster said:
And, most importantly, we can go back to buying beer in Pints! ..

I see you have the hang of this.

And I bid you: we will be able to buy lamb from New Zealand again.

Westdene Seagull · Mar 23, 2019

GrizzlingGammon said:
Not as comfortable as you are it seems.

And just to clarify, you are the only person to have used those words on this thread. Well done for getting the N-word in. You must be proud.

As well you well you know I was using the N word as an example of a word that is acceptable to the people that think using word retard is acceptable. It's very telling that you, Plooks and Lever are defending the use of the word retard. It IS an offensive word and shows a complete lack of intelligence.

birthofanorange · Mar 23, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
There again, quite a lot of committed Brexitters are stark staring bonkers

Yes, they are indeed, and I'll also concede that there are a fair few on the Remain side, too. The good thing is, that the majority of both sides consist of reasonable people, with differing views, yet are able to see the sense in examining things a little further than the aforementioned bonkerites.
This is why the 'will of the people' has shifted. And rightly so.
Democracy in action.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 23, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
The Tories got the answer they wanted, so are ploughing ahead with it regardless of any illegalities, democracy or 'will of the people'. The EU law about tax havens and tax avoidance, has a lot to do with it, as is betting against the pound, as shown by Nigel Farage on 23rd June 2016.
They couldn't believe their luck. May was so confident that she called a General Election but lost her majority, so had to bribe the DUP into backing her.
That's gone badly wrong so we now have an impasse.

Conspiracy cobblers. The government/ the majority of 'Tories' campaigned for Remain and expected to win but they promised to enact the referendum result. You would have expected them to do so and never mentioned advisory if remain had won. Even Labour acknowledged the result had to be enacted .. only undemocratic loons thought differently.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 23, 2019

Javeaseagull said:
Parliament can’t agree except to rule out no deal. So maybe a referendum on No deal or cancel Article 50?
This was intended as an answer to DorsetSeagull.

They also agreed to not holding a second referendum ...

14th of March 2019

Cross-party request for second referendum – defeated

Defeated by 334 votes to 85, a majority of 249

Westdene Seagull · Mar 23, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
If there is ever a referendum in the future, it won't be worded in a binary fashion with such open ended possibilities. It doesn't make any difference what was said or put on leaflets, the actual act of Parliament said it was advisory only.

And Parliament decided by a majority to enact A50.

JCL666 · Mar 23, 2019

Mustafa said:
It would mean that all future referendums could be considered impermanent or ineffective, or pointless. This could extend to general elections. It was made perfectly clear to the electorate that the results of the Brexit referendum were final and to be implemented. Going back on that democratic promise would undermine democracy.

Besides, people are not fully informed what Brexit means, even now. In fact we know little more than we did in 2016. We do know that this government has made a disastrous effort in carrying out the Brexit negotiations, but nobody knows what Brexit is going to look like, or what kind of deal we will we get, if any.

referenda should be used to gain an understanding of public opinion not to determine policy.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 23, 2019

GrizzlingGammon said:
I found you JC.

Don't forget to clear your search history ... your other half might get jealous.

Rogero · Mar 23, 2019

Can any remainers defend this? There is so much waste with the EU. All the euro MPs at the trough plus translators etc.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...86/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

Westdene Seagull · Mar 23, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
The Tories got the answer they wanted, so are ploughing ahead with it regardless of any ...... democracy or 'will of the people'.

So more people voting leave is not democracy ? :facepalm:

Stat Brother · Mar 23, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
They also agreed to not holding a second referendum ...

14th of March 2019

Cross-party request for second referendum – defeated

Defeated by 334 votes to 85, a majority of 249

At which point Corbyn approached the Dispatch Box and said we ought to have a Peoples Vote. :facepalm:

Lincoln Imp · Mar 23, 2019

Dorset Seagull said:
Funny how some people say the BBC are too left wing and others too right wing. I just think viewers see what they want to see depending on their own bias.

I don't think that the BBC is too left wing or too right wing. I suppose this must mean that I am completely unbiased.

Weststander · Mar 23, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
They also agreed to not holding a second referendum ...

14th of March 2019

Cross-party request for second referendum – defeated

Defeated by 334 votes to 85, a majority of 249

That was telling, indicating to me that we will eventually leave the EU, but with a soft Brexit eg Customs Union type deal. But it will take some considerable time.

The 85 did not include the bulk of Corbynistas, or Corbyn or McDonnell, with a load abstaining. Not wanting to appear to betray the working class Brexit homelands.

Peter Ward · Mar 23, 2019

I asked this a week ago of Brexiters and I'll say it again. Please, could someone give just one rational and reasonable advantage of Brexit for the 99% of the population who don't have large offshore investments? Why do you all choose not to take up the challenge or are you all so ignorant that you can't make a reasoned and logical case for your point of view..

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