[Football] Bolton Wanderers on the Brink?

Weststander · Mar 11, 2019

Bolton va va said:
I'm no economist either, but since Bolton have never been placed into administration, i'd say that Mr Weatherspoon smells of somebody talking out of their arse.

Not a criticism of Eddie Davis, or Bolton fans obviously, but it’s a good question as to where the £670m was spent in the 11 years? Other than the obvious usual of players wages, did other directors, or their agent mates, or consulting mates enrich themselves? Not aimed at punishing your club, but to expose any selfish dealings.

Bolton va va · Mar 11, 2019

Weststander said:
Not a criticism of Eddie Davis, or Bolton fans obviously, but it’s a good question as to where the £670m was spent in the 11 years? Other than the obvious usual of players wages, did other directors, or their agent mates, or consulting mates enrich themselves? Not aimed at punishing your club, but to expose any selfish dealings.

The chap who had Bolton's income at £670m, also said (wrongly) that we had been placed in administration, so i wouldn't take his figures as gospel........but the club built a fancy new ground, a hotel, state of the art training facilities, a conference place, etc etc , and there was the policy of signing older players ( like Djorkaeff, Okocha, etc etc ) for next to nothing but paying them top wages, which was successful on the pitch but financially unviable because there was no resale value in them......& Allardyce did nothing to bring on young players.

Bolton's financial troubles didn't come from the premier league time, but from failing to cut spending quickly enough once we had lost our place on the gravy train thanks to the idiot Owen Coyle .....(.& by not sacking the idiot Coyle before he had sabotaged our chances of bouncing straight back.)

Weststander · Mar 11, 2019

Bolton va va said:
The chap who had Bolton's income at £670m, also said (wrongly) that we had been placed in administration, so i wouldn't take his figures as gospel........but the club built a fancy new ground, a hotel, state of the art training facilities, a conference place, etc etc , and there was the policy of signing older players ( like Djorkaeff, Okocha, etc etc ) for next to nothing but paying them top wages, which was successful on the pitch but financially unviable because there was no resale value in them......& Allardyce did nothing to bring on young players.

Bolton's financial troubles didn't come from the premier league time, but from failing to cut spending quickly enough once we had lost our place on the gravy train thanks to the idiot Owen Coyle .....(.& by not sacking the idiot Coyle before he had sabotaged our chances of bouncing straight back.)

I thought the Reebok was built in the mid 90’s, not in the 11 years 2001 to 2012 the ‘analyst’ is talking about?

I guess you know far more about your club than him.

Curious Orange · Mar 11, 2019

Weststander said:
I thought the Reebok was built in the mid 90’s, not in the 11 years 2001 to 2012 the ‘analyst’ is talking about?

I guess you know far more about your club than him.

Yes, it was one of the grounds Martin Perry worked on for McAlpine before he joined the Albion.

Weststander · Mar 11, 2019

Curious Orange said:
Yes, it was one of the grounds Martin Perry worked on for McAlpine before he joined the Albion.

With Hudd’s McAlpine?

Curious Orange · Mar 11, 2019

Weststander said:
With Hudd’s McAlpine?

Yep, he worked on Blackpool and Wigan too, and I think the Stretford End at Old Trafford just for good measure.

There was a reason we hired him!

Weststander · Mar 11, 2019

Curious Orange said:
Yep, he worked on Blackpool and Wigan too, and I think the Stretford End at Old Trafford just for good measure.

There was a reason we hired him!

I went on the Albion’s visit to Hudd when the McAlpine first opened, in Oct 94. Just the two side stands were built. One of the first new stadia, it was lovely at the time. (Jepson and Booth were their strikers).

Straight away it increased interest, with their crowds of 4,000 to 6,000 at Leeds Road, up to 13,000.

studio150 · Mar 19, 2019

Facing a winding up order tomorrow, will this one be the final straw to push them into administration and the 12 point penalty

Badger · Mar 19, 2019

studio150 said:
Facing a winding up order tomorrow, will this one be the final straw to push them into administration and the 12 point penalty

Would it be applied this season? Not much of a punishment if they're already going down.

Gwylan · Mar 19, 2019

Badger said:
Would it be applied this season? Not much of a punishment if they're already going down.

I think (and I'm prepared to be corrected) that if the club is mathematically down, then a deduction is applied the following season but if they can still be saved, then it would be applied now.

If the deduction is inevitable, Bolton would much prefer it to be now than in a month's time.

Bolton va va · Mar 19, 2019

studio150 said:
Facing a winding up order tomorrow, will this one be the final straw to push them into administration and the 12 point penalty

It's worse than that. Apparently, administration is not an option for us, so there is a realistic chance of the club being liquidated unless a new owner takes over very quickly. There are supposed to be talks going on with some unknown possible new owners but time is running out & there is a feeling that HMRC are looking to make an example of someone.

As long as ex-owner ( & Wanderers fan ) Eddie Davies was around we were always reassured that he would never let the club die, but now that he's gone , this a quite a worrying time !!

studio150 · Mar 19, 2019

Bolton va va said:
It's worse than that. Apparently, administration is not an option for us, so there is a realistic chance of the club being liquidated unless a new owner takes over very quickly. There are supposed to be talks going on with some unknown possible new owners but time is running out & there is a feeling that HMRC are looking to make an example of someone.

As long as ex-owner ( & Wanderers fan ) Eddie Davies was around we were always reassured that he would never let the club die, but now that he's gone , this a quite a worrying time !!

Wow, didn't realise it was that bad.

No one wants to see a club just disappear and have to restart waydown the pyramid.

Fingers crossed that this can be resolved quickly and to the benefit of the fans

LlcoolJ · Mar 21, 2019

Bolton va va said:
It's worse than that. Apparently, administration is not an option for us, so there is a realistic chance of the club being liquidated unless a new owner takes over very quickly. There are supposed to be talks going on with some unknown possible new owners but time is running out & there is a feeling that HMRC are looking to make an example of someone.

As long as ex-owner ( & Wanderers fan ) Eddie Davies was around we were always reassured that he would never let the club die, but now that he's gone , this a quite a worrying time !!

I hope you get a reprieve.

Interested to know, as a Bolton fan, your opinion of Gartside and his agent pals.

From the many articles I've read and from talking to my Bolton supporting mate, it seems pretty obvious that he was the driving force behind pissing hundreds of millions up the wall. Allegedly making a fortune for himself and his agent mates (BFS being manager was obviously purely coincidental).

But your previous posts seem to be almost defending that era. Denying the facts of the amount of cash that washed through the club and erroneously saying that PL money was used to build the stadium.

I feel sorry for Eddie, the fans and the staff but the rot set in way before the current spivs got involved, from what I know.

So I just wondered what you and other Bolton fans thoughts were.

Best of luck btw. Don't want to see the club go to the wall after years of torture.

LlcoolJ · Mar 21, 2019

Interesting article, and comments......

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/spo...-are-safe-and-sound-for-now-but-for-how-long/

Bolton va va · Mar 22, 2019

LlcoolJ said:
I hope you get a reprieve.

Interested to know, as a Bolton fan, your opinion of Gartside and his agent pals.

From the many articles I've read and from talking to my Bolton supporting mate, it seems pretty obvious that he was the driving force behind pissing hundreds of millions up the wall. Allegedly making a fortune for himself and his agent mates (BFS being manager was obviously purely coincidental).

But your previous posts seem to be almost defending that era. Denying the facts of the amount of cash that washed through the club and erroneously saying that PL money was used to build the stadium.

I feel sorry for Eddie, the fans and the staff but the rot set in way before the current spivs got involved, from what I know.

So I just wondered what you and other Bolton fans thoughts were.

Best of luck btw. Don't want to see the club go to the wall after years of torture.

Thanks for your support for the club. We're not counting chickens, but there is a lot of optimism that the prospective new owners are genuine & do at least have the money to clear the debts & keep the club going.

I wouldn't take much notice of anything in the "Bolton News ". The relationship between the paper & the club has broken down, & at one point the reporter who was supposed to cover the Wanderers, had his press privileges withdrawn.

As for Mr Gartside, the good he did for Bolton Wanderers massively outweighed what he got wrong. He encouraged Eddie Davies into the club& it was the two of them ( both genuine Bolton fans ) who gave the club the best years in its history & apart from the success on the pitch, a lot of money was invested into the club's infrastructure

. His disastrous mistake was the appointment of Owen Coyle & not sacking him quickly enough after he had thrown away our premier league place when we were so dependent on the money, a mistake compounded by backing his awful signings on high wages & long contracts and that ( not the premier league period ) was the start of our financial problems, which as you say , pre-dated our current owner.

Despite it going wrong at the end, Mr Davies who was nobody's fool, always trusted Mr Gartside completely & i'd back his judgement above a few conspiracy theory types making unfounded claims about "the money " because the good times were over.

There's no point asking for "the view" of Bolton fans because there are too many divisions, which have several times resulted in fighting amongst ourselves, but Mr Gartside has never been much of an issue.

LlcoolJ · Mar 22, 2019

Bolton va va said:
Thanks for your support for the club. We're not counting chickens, but there is a lot of optimism that the prospective new owners are genuine & do at least have the money to clear the debts & keep the club going.

I wouldn't take much notice of anything in the "Bolton News ". The relationship between the paper & the club has broken down, & at one point the reporter who was supposed to cover the Wanderers, had his press privileges withdrawn.

As for Mr Gartside, the good he did for Bolton Wanderers massively outweighed what he got wrong. He encouraged Eddie Davies into the club& it was the two of them ( both genuine Bolton fans ) who gave the club the best years in its history & apart from the success on the pitch, a lot of money was invested into the club's infrastructure

. His disastrous mistake was the appointment of Owen Coyle & not sacking him quickly enough after he had thrown away our premier league place when we were so dependent on the money, a mistake compounded by backing his awful signings on high wages & long contracts and that ( not the premier league period ) was the start of our financial problems, which as you say , pre-dated our current owner.

Despite it going wrong at the end, Mr Davies who was nobody's fool, always trusted Mr Gartside completely & i'd back his judgement above a few conspiracy theory types making unfounded claims about "the money " because the good times were over.

There's no point asking for "the view" of Bolton fans because there are too many divisions, which have several times resulted in fighting amongst ourselves, but Mr Gartside has never been much of an issue.

Thanks for that mate. Interesting. And as I said before best of luck.

Simster · Mar 22, 2019

Bolton va va said:
Thanks for your support for the club. We're not counting chickens, but there is a lot of optimism that the prospective new owners are genuine & do at least have the money to clear the debts & keep the club going.

I wouldn't take much notice of anything in the "Bolton News ". The relationship between the paper & the club has broken down, & at one point the reporter who was supposed to cover the Wanderers, had his press privileges withdrawn.

As for Mr Gartside, the good he did for Bolton Wanderers massively outweighed what he got wrong. He encouraged Eddie Davies into the club& it was the two of them ( both genuine Bolton fans ) who gave the club the best years in its history & apart from the success on the pitch, a lot of money was invested into the club's infrastructure

. His disastrous mistake was the appointment of Owen Coyle & not sacking him quickly enough after he had thrown away our premier league place when we were so dependent on the money, a mistake compounded by backing his awful signings on high wages & long contracts and that ( not the premier league period ) was the start of our financial problems, which as you say , pre-dated our current owner.

Despite it going wrong at the end, Mr Davies who was nobody's fool, always trusted Mr Gartside completely & i'd back his judgement above a few conspiracy theory types making unfounded claims about "the money " because the good times were over.

There's no point asking for "the view" of Bolton fans because there are too many divisions, which have several times resulted in fighting amongst ourselves, but Mr Gartside has never been much of an issue.

Reading from afar, I can't help thinking that a club's future being so dependent on choice of football manager is absolutely no way to run a football club. You seem VERY happy to blame your club's woes on the appointment of Coyle, but he's nothing more than a bang average / crap football manager. Sure, he's probably bought all the wrong players but you ought to pointing the fingers at the people who ought to have the authority to sanction player purchases and the terms of their contracts, not the team manager.

I'd be willing to bet money that Bolton's entire back room organisation has been spiv-like and disorganized for over a decade. Fine when you've got a competent manager in place like Allardyce, but leaving the club hopelessly exposed when a clown like Coyle runs the first team.

Here at Brighton we know a thing or two about incompetent and competent club ownership I can tell you. It doesn't begin and end with the choice of football manager.

Acker79 · Mar 31, 2019

This is concerning:

Laurence Bassini was such a caring and diligent owner for Watford that, even after all that unfortunate business once he had left the club, he made sure to text Frank Smith, the deputy sports editor of the Watford Observer, after the team had lost to Crystal Palace in the 2013 Championship playoffs.

The first message will give you a flavour. “How is the feeling in the town now?” it read. “For me the feeling is amazing.” And on he went, making the point that he was happy for the newspaper to print every word. “What goes around comes around,” was another. “This is my happiest memory of Watford ... print this in the paper, Laurence Bassini ... I have to go now and open the champagne ... all my love to Watford.”

Bassini has been declared a bankrupt twice and, after the first occasion, changed his name from Bazini to get a fresh start. It didn’t do him much good and, shortly before those charming messages to the local newspaper, he was found guilty by an independent disciplinary commission of misconduct and dishonesty relating to his financial dealings at Watford. Bassini was found to have “practised secrecy and deception” and banned from holding a position of authority with any Football League club for three years.

Bassini, in short, would come out somewhere near the top if you were to draw up a list of the bluffers and chancers who have passed through the sport. He is also now announcing that he is close to a takeover of Bolton Wanderers and, worse, it appears from what he says the Football League is going to wave it through.

Yes, it is probably worth not taking everything he says at face value just yet. No apologies here, however, for wondering whether this is going to be the final calamity of Shaun Harvey’s time as the league’s chief executive. Or whether there will ever come a day when the relevant people at league HQ find any use for that yellowing scrap of paper formerly known as the fit and proper person’s test.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ble-jeopardy-racism-cases-fernando-forestieri (bottom half of the article)

Guy Fawkes · Mar 31, 2019

Acker79 said:
This is concerning:

Laurence Bassini was such a caring and diligent owner for Watford that, even after all that unfortunate business once he had left the club, he made sure to text Frank Smith, the deputy sports editor of the Watford Observer, after the team had lost to Crystal Palace in the 2013 Championship playoffs.

The first message will give you a flavour. “How is the feeling in the town now?” it read. “For me the feeling is amazing.” And on he went, making the point that he was happy for the newspaper to print every word. “What goes around comes around,” was another. “This is my happiest memory of Watford ... print this in the paper, Laurence Bassini ... I have to go now and open the champagne ... all my love to Watford.”

Bassini has been declared a bankrupt twice and, after the first occasion, changed his name from Bazini to get a fresh start. It didn’t do him much good and, shortly before those charming messages to the local newspaper, he was found guilty by an independent disciplinary commission of misconduct and dishonesty relating to his financial dealings at Watford. Bassini was found to have “practised secrecy and deception” and banned from holding a position of authority with any Football League club for three years.

Bassini, in short, would come out somewhere near the top if you were to draw up a list of the bluffers and chancers who have passed through the sport. He is also now announcing that he is close to a takeover of Bolton Wanderers and, worse, it appears from what he says the Football League is going to wave it through.

Yes, it is probably worth not taking everything he says at face value just yet. No apologies here, however, for wondering whether this is going to be the final calamity of Shaun Harvey’s time as the league’s chief executive. Or whether there will ever come a day when the relevant people at league HQ find any use for that yellowing scrap of paper formerly known as the fit and proper person’s test.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ble-jeopardy-racism-cases-fernando-forestieri (bottom half of the article)

Doesn't sound good, but what if the choice is between that owner and no club? - surely saving the club would be the preferred option for fans? (even if the move just buys some breathing space from being wound up)

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 31, 2019

Guy Fawkes said:
Doesn't sound good, but what if the choice is between that owner and no club? - surely saving the club would be the preferred option for fans? (even if the move just buys some breathing space from being wound up)

So, on balance, thank goodness for Bill Archer?

(He did give us some breathing space....)

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