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[Football] Right then. After that demonstration... VAR? Yes or No?
- Thread starter SweatyMexican
- Start date
southstandandy
WEST STAND ANDY
- Jul 9, 2003
- 5,639
I thought we were slightly hard done by yesterday but having just seen the City 'winner' chalked off on MOTD for 'handball', now that was harsh. Yes technically both decisions correct but I hate they way this is going.
To prevent inadvertent handballs what are we going to see next? The first Footballers style 'Straight Jacket'? Could see these going down well in the club shop!
To prevent inadvertent handballs what are we going to see next? The first Footballers style 'Straight Jacket'? Could see these going down well in the club shop!
southstandandy
WEST STAND ANDY
- Jul 9, 2003
- 5,639
Linesmen/women will probably be phased out in the future!
Originunknown
BINFEST'ING
Hawk Eye (owned by Sony) are contracted and will be keen to extend this beyond 19/20. The system will evolve, it is still early days but would expect to see a new contract agreed for next season or even a multi-season agreement.
Get used to it.
Get used to it.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
Raleigh Chopper
New member
If anyone who wants to get rid of VAR never moaned once about the constant awful decisions made by referees and assistants then fair enough.
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
Nope. We scored a goal which had NO issue about it.......and i still couldnt 100% celebrate as the ref was checking it was ok.
Has removed the feeling of pure joy from scoring a goal. If there is an indication IMMEDIATELY from the tef that there is potentially an issue then that would be different.
Has removed the feeling of pure joy from scoring a goal. If there is an indication IMMEDIATELY from the tef that there is potentially an issue then that would be different.
Recidivist
Active member
Still think VAR is a good idea to help referees. The game is mega-fast these days and I'm surprised that referees and assistants get it right as often as they do.
Accepting that they're human and make errors will never stop fans complaining about wrong decisions particularly if they go against them.
But I hate the thrill of a goal being ruined by a VAR decision minutes later.
Personally, I think yesterday demonstrates that a) the offside law needs looking at again (maybe others such as handball) as Burn's foot being marginally offside can hardly be said to have gained any real advantage given the next phase of play and b) VAR should not be looking at every goal for possible infractions. I think that should be the referee's call only if he's not sure about some aspect of the goal.
Think we'll love it when it goes our way though! Such is a fans lot....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Accepting that they're human and make errors will never stop fans complaining about wrong decisions particularly if they go against them.
But I hate the thrill of a goal being ruined by a VAR decision minutes later.
Personally, I think yesterday demonstrates that a) the offside law needs looking at again (maybe others such as handball) as Burn's foot being marginally offside can hardly be said to have gained any real advantage given the next phase of play and b) VAR should not be looking at every goal for possible infractions. I think that should be the referee's call only if he's not sure about some aspect of the goal.
Think we'll love it when it goes our way though! Such is a fans lot....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Arthritic Toe
Well-known member
As I said on the other thread - You lot who wanted VAR (which was the vast majority) made your bed, now you can flamin well lie in it.
I shall say the same to the Welsh farmers who voted for Brexit.
... and any other turkeys who voted for Christmas.
I shall say the same to the Welsh farmers who voted for Brexit.
... and any other turkeys who voted for Christmas.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
Ridiculous comment. Football wasn't ever perfect. var makes things worse chalking off goals that would have always been given previously. Just watched the man city game and it was an absolute travesty. Yes the rules are at fault and var is doing its job correctly but without var it crucially would have stood. var is not doing its job properly as there was a very good penalty shout in the first half which was ignored.
It is probably a first, but Danny Murphy is spot on.
This the worst argument I have ever heard. WE all complain about decisions all the time. We still do now we have VAR, I am watching MoTD right now and the main discussion points post the biggest match of the season, 1st vs 3rd from last season, is discussion of two shit decisions made despite, or because of VAR.
This is my post from the Cricket/Tennis thread on this issue, and sums up my feelings and is probably more appropriate on this thread.
I feel a large part of what makes it work in cricket and tennis is that the review system engages the fans. They all know what is going on there is an announcement of the review, big screen shows the tennis ball missing/clipping the line, or shows the three reds for the lbw decision. All very visual, and tense and all of these reviews are line calls. Brilliant, great, perfect. Except the standard of cricket umpiring has fallen through the floor but that is a different conversation.
Football has it right with the goal line technology, again a simple line call, on, and here is the key, an immovable line. But VAR is a mess, the offside calls are still subjective as the line is drawn from a camera angle not necessarily looking straight down the line. The ball being passed is also subjective when exactly did it leave the players foot? So even offside, the second most simple, line based decision cannot truly be ruled on accurately under the current conditions.
As for the handball decisions against attacking sides we have seen so far this season, well that needs to be changed immediately. Both Wolves and City have had goals chalked off against the spirit of the game and laws as I understand them.
Finally, back to my original point. Until they find a way of engaging the fan at the match with the VAR system then it is a huge no from me. Whatever the VAR officials are looking at should be on the big screen, and the audio of any discussion should be broadcast too. We have paid to be there, we should be fully informed of what is going on.
Even if somehow the FA found a way to deal with all these issues I would probably still be anti VAR as for me football is about the visceral passion of scoring a goal, it is the rarity and difficulty of scoring a goal that makes football the sport it is. That is why the world loves this game, for that moment when you totally lose your shit, that we are going to do this you know feeling, that second of unadulterated joy. That is football, and that is why VAR is not and never will be football for me.
I feel a large part of what makes it work in cricket and tennis is that the review system engages the fans. They all know what is going on there is an announcement of the review, big screen shows the tennis ball missing/clipping the line, or shows the three reds for the lbw decision. All very visual, and tense and all of these reviews are line calls. Brilliant, great, perfect. Except the standard of cricket umpiring has fallen through the floor but that is a different conversation.
Football has it right with the goal line technology, again a simple line call, on, and here is the key, an immovable line. But VAR is a mess, the offside calls are still subjective as the line is drawn from a camera angle not necessarily looking straight down the line. The ball being passed is also subjective when exactly did it leave the players foot? So even offside, the second most simple, line based decision cannot truly be ruled on accurately under the current conditions.
As for the handball decisions against attacking sides we have seen so far this season, well that needs to be changed immediately. Both Wolves and City have had goals chalked off against the spirit of the game and laws as I understand them.
Finally, back to my original point. Until they find a way of engaging the fan at the match with the VAR system then it is a huge no from me. Whatever the VAR officials are looking at should be on the big screen, and the audio of any discussion should be broadcast too. We have paid to be there, we should be fully informed of what is going on.
Even if somehow the FA found a way to deal with all these issues I would probably still be anti VAR as for me football is about the visceral passion of scoring a goal, it is the rarity and difficulty of scoring a goal that makes football the sport it is. That is why the world loves this game, for that moment when you totally lose your shit, that we are going to do this you know feeling, that second of unadulterated joy. That is football, and that is why VAR is not and never will be football for me.
This.
For the life of me I cannot understand how people have become confused about use of VAR versus the actual bloody rules. For me, obviously VAR is a step forward, and I am relaxed about it being used for any and every decision (provided it is done in the background - which it largely is now). No, it is the rules that are being implimented, some of which I am sure are new (I don't ever recall some of them). Yes, the rules are in needs of a reboot.
Take our chalked off goal. Burn's arm was offside. I recon that in the past if that was even seen it would have been ignored by half the refs and linos. Now it can't be ignored. Why was it ignored by half the refs and linos in the past? Because it doesn't 'feel' right. Why doesn't it 'feel' right? Because there is no clear blue daylight between Burn and the defenders. A rule change here would be right and propper. Give me clear blue daylight and I won't wake up the next day, as I did today, with my first though the picture of Burn from VAR, feeling bitter.
Anyway, as also noted by others, there will be far fewer people shouting about VAR at the Stains game, and some new faces, after thousands of season ticket holders have burnt their season tickest in disgust at the way VAR has destroyed their game.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
The rules, or the laws, are in this case an ass and var is implementing them correctly some of the time. But it is specious to argue that 'var is simply upholding the rules' as without var these incidents would have been goals. Therefore I, and others blame var. I believe var is the worst thing to happen to football since the money came pouring in.
And for the life of me I cannot understand the lack of perception of loss of joy. Joy is a precious commodity and is hard found these troubled times, something integral to football as a live spectator sport is being lost.
I agree with most of your post (change the rules!) but not your conclusion. The genie is out of the bottle. It is like the invention of blood cholesterol testing. We can predict risk of heart attack and stroke very wel,l now, with these tests. Getting a bad test result is not what anyone wants, but it doesn't make sese to go back to the pretest days, when a fat lad could dismiss concerns about his weight and not make any lifestyke changes because afetr all, who knows? And 'I am just big boned'.
Actually a better analogy for VAR is genetic health testing, and here I will turn the argument on its head. We don't gene screen everyone for every health risk because of cost and ethics arguments: especially in the US, gene screening would result in vast numbers of people being unable to get health insurance. The issue is more nuanced here, but we do gene screen for some things, usually only when there is prior concerns (family history of life-changing illness, for example). But I can see a day when we are all gene screened before starting a family, and the embryo is gene screened in utero, with the option of termination based on the outcome. Obviously this will concern many, and outrage religious types who don't even believe in contraception (step forward, saviour of Brexit, Rees-Moggy and chums). But the arrow of progress has only one direction.
Bottom line, accept VAR, campaign for rule changes, be critical but FFS don't be a luddite and turn to religion and an unswerving devotion to the pope (and the VAR equivalent - blissful ignorance and an unbridled faith in the ref and linos - as bloody if!).
Jaxie
Well-known member
I’m Pro EU, I like Lineker, I have no problem with female pundits and I hate the daily mail, sun, express and telegraph. I also wouldn’t go anywhere near special brew.
VAR is shit. Football at this level becomes less appealing every year.
Jaxie
Well-known member
It sounded like a great game on the radio, end to end. I was surprised it was last on MOTD.
When I say like cricket, I mean the process, on screen for all to see with an explanation, and an independent decision. It sure would show up the cheats. If there's a shadow of doubt, stick with the refs decision, as I and many others have already said though, we need officials as professional as players too.
The Wizard
Well-known member
- Jul 2, 2009
- 18,383
It will kill the game most of us love, dramatic and amusing if you’re watching on TV I’m sure but for fans who actually attend games it’s utterly horrific, I said this before the game on another thread and I’ll say it again to me if you can’t celebrate a goal in absolute assurance that moment isn’t going to be taken away minutes later because someone’s toe was offside then really how can we ever have that proper celebration feeling ever again?
Correct decisions yes, but at what cost? I can’t stand VAR and I will never be in favour, purely because if you take those moments away from football it’s like ripping out footballs soul, each to their own.
Correct decisions yes, but at what cost? I can’t stand VAR and I will never be in favour, purely because if you take those moments away from football it’s like ripping out footballs soul, each to their own.
Let's stop repeating this about the Murray non-handball. It was nothing to do with VAR - the ref did not give the handball. If VAR didn't exist it would not have been an issue in the first place.
This is the trouble - we're now sort of saying 'the ref doesn't have to make a decision, as VAR will rule on all penalty shouts'. That's not what it's for.