Surrey Phil
Well-known member
- Aug 3, 2010
- 1,476
I don’t think any party is electable any more. I think we should lock all the MP’s in parliament and not let them out until they have agreed a Brexit deal, to avoid politics getting in the way.
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[News] Panorama tonight will be interesting !
- Thread starter Live by the sea
- Start date
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 2,969
I feel very sorry for the Jewish Labour Party members interviewed on this programme who have had their lives made a misery by racists within the party. It’s also worrying how many people want to completely sweep it under the carpet or dismiss the programme as biased.
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
Dam that brexit business has infiltrated a thread again
Much as it pains me to say so, it is far easier to tar labour with the brush of casual (and not so casual) antisemitism than it is to target the tories for being islamophobic. The Home secretary of which you speak is backing Boris so that somewhat kicks the 'letter box' episode into the long grass.
My view is neither party is racist, albeit some in each part are racist, but that Corbyn is utterly inept at managing his more hairy-arsed comrades. Who knew?
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,323
Anyone who went to University in the last 10 years may have witnessed an aggressive turn like I did, but obviously depends on where you went.
Here is my very simplistic take on things.
When I first went to University in the 90s, there were pockets of good old fashioned socialism and justice but it was starting to ebb away. Around the same time football hooligans discovered ecstasy and at University (I was in Manchester) it was similar.
When I went back (around ten years as mature student) I was surprised to see the "radicalism" had returned but it was almost purely focused on Palestine. A campaign I am fully supportive of, but this appeared to be very single issue and I'm sorry to say in some parts obsessive. It had become a badge that you simply had to wear against another. "Feminists for Palestine", "Jewish Students for Palestine" etc..
This was the "South Africa" of the 2000s.
I imagine now at University the radicalism has "moved on" to LGBT issues, gender equality etc... but those from ten years ago (if still committed) have joined the ranks of the Labour party, momentum etc...
However( and this is important) many have fused their concern about Palestine with David Icke "new world order" conspiracy theories. On the basis of Israel this is where the far right and the far left have simply joined hands. The conspiracy theories of the far right have been "claimed" by the left, sorry.
I don't believe Corbyn to be anti semitic at all. He is simply an old fashioned anti-racist pro Palestine campaigner that has simply lost touch with how the "anti-Israel" have moved into some very very dodgy areas in recent years. Their language is completely indefensible.
He is in complete and utter denial as is anyone who claims that fear of antisemitism is a smear by disgruntled Tony Blair supporters.
There are pockets of the left and his party that are deeply racist. If you are truly socialist you need to disown it.
Here is my very simplistic take on things.
When I first went to University in the 90s, there were pockets of good old fashioned socialism and justice but it was starting to ebb away. Around the same time football hooligans discovered ecstasy and at University (I was in Manchester) it was similar.
When I went back (around ten years as mature student) I was surprised to see the "radicalism" had returned but it was almost purely focused on Palestine. A campaign I am fully supportive of, but this appeared to be very single issue and I'm sorry to say in some parts obsessive. It had become a badge that you simply had to wear against another. "Feminists for Palestine", "Jewish Students for Palestine" etc..
This was the "South Africa" of the 2000s.
I imagine now at University the radicalism has "moved on" to LGBT issues, gender equality etc... but those from ten years ago (if still committed) have joined the ranks of the Labour party, momentum etc...
However( and this is important) many have fused their concern about Palestine with David Icke "new world order" conspiracy theories. On the basis of Israel this is where the far right and the far left have simply joined hands. The conspiracy theories of the far right have been "claimed" by the left, sorry.
I don't believe Corbyn to be anti semitic at all. He is simply an old fashioned anti-racist pro Palestine campaigner that has simply lost touch with how the "anti-Israel" have moved into some very very dodgy areas in recent years. Their language is completely indefensible.
He is in complete and utter denial as is anyone who claims that fear of antisemitism is a smear by disgruntled Tony Blair supporters.
There are pockets of the left and his party that are deeply racist. If you are truly socialist you need to disown it.
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No he was making the same point as you but just for the one party and you actually only represented one party as well.
Nottseagull
Well-known member
Labour supporters' anti-semitism is low-key and can be quite subtle. Such as not bothering to capitalise the j but doing so for their own party's name.
Is there a party that hates both ??
There’s always a pattern on radio phone-ins on this issue, in the Corbyn era. All calls are welcome, but almost every caller aggressively attacks the radio presenter as a fascist, “there’s no anti semitism in the Labour Party”, “it’s all part of a media agenda to destroy the Labour movement”, “why’s it even being given air time?”.
On cue they ring in hogging the phone lines, almost as if it’s a orchestrated media strategy.
Are you suggesting I'm a Labour supporter ? I also didn't capitalise 'muslim' in one of my posts .... oh no !!!!!
Nottseagull
Well-known member
Well, there are parallels. Israel operates its own apartheid policy (at least in Gaza). In fact I think it's worse, because I don't remember the South African Air Force murdering civilians on bombing raids at the slightest provocation.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,323
Well the Tories (MPs) have been guilty of both. Hilarious they are are taking the moral high ground. I see Boris is keeping his head down on the racism issue.
Nottseagull
Well-known member
I did think you might be. It would seem I was wrong though, so I apologise for the slur
I did think you might be. It would seem I was wrong though, so I apologise for the slur
Apology accepted. Floating voter me. If anything I'm anti ALL religion so I shouldn't use capitals on any of them !
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,323
Drawing parallels is part of the problem. Suggesting Israel isn't just like South Africa, it's worse is part of the problem.
You need to discuss each separately. On the Israel Palestinian problem specifically the minute you take a side you are part of the problem.
It is NOT South Africa, it has it's own unique complexities.
Nobody really suggested that South Africa has "no right to exist" in the 80s. They accepted the colonial carve up but hated the whites only rule.
Some Labour party members (and MPs) have gone much further I'm afraid. The problem being the formation of Israel. That is deeply deeply concerning. What next another homeland for the Jews ? they are suggesting America.
My formative years were watching apartheid on TV. White South Africans were "fair game" in the 80s. The B side of Spitting Image "the chicken song" was "I've never met a nice South African"
It led me to have an irrational dislike of white South Africans. Post apartheid there was a huge influx into London, many into well paid jobs who I worked alongside. I kicked that into touch when I realised I was simply disliking them because they came across as "arrogant" (just a language thing) and I was associating them with the past abuses of their state.
I was very very wrong and I'm seeing the same mistake being made in the Labour party towards Jewish members. Nobody Jewish joins the Labour party because they want to see the destruction of Palestine. Appalling.
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BNP
Hate is a bit strong but surely most are "concerned" about the Muslim population in this country...The pacific majority are tarred with the same brush as fanatical minority !
Lower West Stander
Well-known member
What surprises me is that this is all coming out now.
Corbyn has a history of platform sharing with some deeply unpleasant people. His left wing socialist views are contentious but appealed to many in the leadership election. All the nasty stuff about his collaborations with the IRA, Hamas, Venezuela etc were completely ignored at the time.
These views haven’t changed and only now are people beginning to realise what sort of a guy they elected leader of the party.
I hate Boris too by the way.....
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Corbyn has a history of platform sharing with some deeply unpleasant people. His left wing socialist views are contentious but appealed to many in the leadership election. All the nasty stuff about his collaborations with the IRA, Hamas, Venezuela etc were completely ignored at the time.
These views haven’t changed and only now are people beginning to realise what sort of a guy they elected leader of the party.
I hate Boris too by the way.....
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