[Politics] Brexit – what will happen?

Baldseagull · Nov 30, 2018

darkwolf666 said:
Ok, my error, not legally binding!

Just a question, if the referendum result is overturned how many people will never vote again as they will feel betrayed. Or is it ok if they don’t vote as they were obviously stupid in the first place!

Depends on how it is overturned, if it is via another referendum I suspect just the people that don't usually bother at GE's will go back to not bothering. I would hope that if we have another referendum and Remain wins out, that those who had supported leave would "get over it". I don't think people that voted to leave are stupid, but some voted that way for badly informed reasons or stupid reasons.

bazbha · Nov 30, 2018

Baldseagull said:
Depends on how it is overturned, if it is via another referendum I suspect just the people that don't usually bother at GE's will go back to not bothering. I would hope that if we have another referendum and Remain wins out, that those who had supported leave would "get over it". I don't think people that voted to leave are stupid, but some voted that way for badly informed reasons or stupid reasons.

Yes you do think we're stupid. Both sides were badly informed ( Tax payer funded Project Fear) but you seem to assume only leave voters were badly informed or have stupid reasons.

Brian Parsons · Nov 30, 2018

Baldseagull said:
Depends on how it is overturned, if it is via another referendum I suspect just the people that don't usually bother at GE's will go back to not bothering. I would hope that if we have another referendum and Remain wins out, that those who had supported leave would "get over it". I don't think people that voted to leave are stupid, but some voted that way for badly informed reasons or stupid reasons.

Believe you me l " won't get over it " and to suggest that's how leavers will react is both naive and downright insulting. I admit that only a small percentage of eligible voters bothered to vote back in 2016 but that's how our system works. I bet the majority of remainers didn't bother and probably won't if there's another referendum. But if there is another vote then the dictionaries can delete the word DEMOCRACY.

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golddene · Nov 30, 2018

Baldseagull said:
Depends on how it is overturned, if it is via another referendum I suspect just the people that don't usually bother at GE's will go back to not bothering. I would hope that if we have another referendum and Remain wins out, that those who had supported leave would "get over it". I don't think people that voted to leave are stupid, but some voted that way for badly informed reasons or stupid reasons.

maybe we should introduce compulsory voting as is the case in Australia, obviously with some exemption's,ie illness etc at least that way it would lead to a real majority decision and include more encouragement for postal voting to aid those who cannot be arsed to vote personally as well as those who don't wish to be inconvenienced. The small fine imposed on those who have no real excuse in not voting should not be harsh and it would encourage a turnout that this important vote should have had and General election voting in future deserves. There would be absolutely no excuse, other than to accept any result of any election and the People will then have truly voted for what they want*. There are sure to be some of us who will find this an affront to their civil liberties etc but its a small price to pay while ensuring maximum turnout and our nation being responsible for how they vote.

*I am not implying people did not vote for what they wanted in June 2016

Baldseagull · Nov 30, 2018

bazbha said:
Yes you do think we're stupid. Both sides were badly informed ( Tax payer funded Project Fear) but you seem to assume only leave voters were badly informed or have stupid reasons.

I think it was a stupid choice, and I think not enough people gave it enough thought. But anyone is capable of making stupid decisions, me included, usually when I haven't given something enough thought.

darkwolf666 · Nov 30, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Sadly, I think the naivety shown probably means the latter would be better for mankind.

Same reason I didn't let my kids choose their menu's until they were older. Fun though choc ice and chips is for a night, I think all grown ups know where it would lead

You sir, are a patronising tit... don’t trust the hoi pollloi with the vote, they might **** things up...

darkwolf666 · Nov 30, 2018

Baldseagull said:
Depends on how it is overturned, if it is via another referendum I suspect just the people that don't usually bother at GE's will go back to not bothering. I would hope that if we have another referendum and Remain wins out, that those who had supported leave would "get over it". I don't think people that voted to leave are stupid, but some voted that way for badly informed reasons or stupid reasons.

Or maybe, just maybe they believed what they were voting for?

bazbha · Nov 30, 2018

Baldseagull said:
I think it was a stupid choice, and I think not enough people gave it enough thought. But anyone is capable of making stupid decisions, me included, usually when I haven't given something enough thought.

The arrogance & patronising attitude continues. Voting leave or remain is an opinion. Where does stupidity come in to it? You are disappointed in the result as are many others. I gave it a lot of thought. As the British people were denied a vote for over 40 years there has been plenty of time to think. Amazing the need for a second vote within 4 years when we didn't vote as we were meant to!

darkwolf666 · Nov 30, 2018

Brian Parsons said:
Believe you me l " won't get over it " and to suggest that's how leavers will react is both naive and downright insulting. I admit that only a small percentage of eligible voters bothered to vote back in 2016 but that's how our system works. I bet the majority of remainers didn't bother and probably won't if there's another referendum. But if there is another vote then the dictionaries can delete the word DEMOCRACY.

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I don’t think they will actually delete the word from the dictionary, but they may suffix it with an * and the following *a system of government by the whole population, unless those on the losing side decide the winners didn’t know what they are doing ‘cos they’re too thick!

WATFORD zero · Nov 30, 2018

darkwolf666 said:
You sir, are a patronising tit... don’t trust the hoi pollloi with the vote, they might **** things up...

I may well be, but at least I wasn't gullible enough to be stitched up like a kipper by a few amateur public school boy bullshitters like Nige, Boris and JRM.

Hoi polloi? :lolol:

But at least Theresa has delivered what you voted for

Baldseagull · Nov 30, 2018

Brian Parsons said:
Believe you me l " won't get over it " and to suggest that's how leavers will react is both naive and downright insulting. I admit that only a small percentage of eligible voters bothered to vote back in 2016 but that's how our system works. I bet the majority of remainers didn't bother and probably won't if there's another referendum. But if there is another vote then the dictionaries can delete the word DEMOCRACY.

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The "get over it" was a bit tongue in cheek mate. I hope the bit in your post where you suggest that to have a vote, would end democracy, is in the same spirit.

bazbha · Nov 30, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
I may well be, but at least I wasn't gullible enough to be stitched up like a kipper by a few amateur public school boy bullshitters like Nige, Boris and JRM.

Hoi polloi?

But at least Theresa has delivered what you voted for

Remind me. Where did Blair & Clegg go to school? Add in Cameron & Osbourne etc. Probably not a bog standard comprehensive!

Pavilionaire · Nov 30, 2018

People talk about the Snowflake Generation but nowhere is it more evident than politics.

"Oh austerity - let's punish the Lib Dems and annihilate them"
"Oh immigration - I'm a bit racist let's leave the EU"
"Oh we have to stick to the result of the Referendum even though the liars fled the scene, the facts are out and May's Deal is shit".

Democracy always has to be polarised in this country, black and white - all the time. Real life is not like that at all. There is real ignorance in this country of political issues - from top to bottom, and I include the majority of MPs in that too. We get the governments we deserve and it's about time we started taking more responsibility as politically active individuals and challenging the lazy xenophobia endemic in our society.

It makes me angry that the EU Referendum was decided on IMMIGRATION, not whether membership of the EU helps or hinders life in the UK.

If any good is to come out of this clusterf*ck of a 2 1/2 years it will be that the main political parties get a wake up call the like of which they've never witnessed before.

darkwolf666 · Nov 30, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
I may well be, but at least I wasn't gullible enough to be stitched up like a kipper by a few amateur public school boy bullshitters like Nige, Boris and JRM.

Hoi polloi?

But at least Theresa has delivered what you voted for

Not only are you a tit, you are presumptuous that I voted leave. My beef (modern parlance) is that democracy has been shat on from a great height...

bazbha · Nov 30, 2018

Pavilionaire said:
People talk about the Snowflake Generation but nowhere is it more evident than politics.

"Oh austerity - let's punish the Lib Dems and annihilate them"
"Oh immigration - I'm a bit racist let's leave the EU"
"Oh we have to stick to the result of the Referendum even though the liars fled the scene, the facts are out and May's Deal is shit".

Democracy always has to be polarised in this country, black and white - all the time. Real life is not like that at all. There is real ignorance in this country of political issues - from top to bottom, and I include the majority of MPs in that too. We get the governments we deserve and it's about time we started taking more responsibility as politically active individuals and challenging the lazy xenophobia endemic in our society.

It makes me angry that the EU Referendum was decided on IMMIGRATION, not whether membership of the EU helps or hinders life in the UK.

If any good is to come out of this clusterf*ck of a 2 1/2 years it will be that the main political parties get a wake up call the like of which they've never witnessed before.

Who on earth said it was just about immigration? No one that I know or ever met!

darkwolf666 · Nov 30, 2018

Pavilionaire said:
People talk about the Snowflake Generation but nowhere is it more evident than politics.

"Oh austerity - let's punish the Lib Dems and annihilate them"
"Oh immigration - I'm a bit racist let's leave the EU"
"Oh we have to stick to the result of the Referendum even though the liars fled the scene, the facts are out and May's Deal is shit".

Democracy always has to be polarised in this country, black and white - all the time. Real life is not like that at all. There is real ignorance in this country of political issues - from top to bottom, and I include the majority of MPs in that too. We get the governments we deserve and it's about time we started taking more responsibility as politically active individuals and challenging the lazy xenophobia endemic in our society.

It makes me angry that the EU Referendum was decided on IMMIGRATION, not whether membership of the EU helps or hinders life in the UK.

If any good is to come out of this clusterf*ck of a 2 1/2 years it will be that the main political parties get a wake up call the like of which they've never witnessed before.

While I can’t argue with much of your post, do you really believe the last paragraph?

Baldseagull · Dec 1, 2018

darkwolf666 said:
Or maybe, just maybe they believed what they were voting for?

I am sure many people believed in what they were voting for, but believing doesn't make it true. This is why I said badly informed, much of the UK press has been printing bollocks about the EU for decades, I used to believe a lot of it myself, and they carried on in the same vein during the campaign. I didn't know for sure I was going to vote remain when the referendum was announced, I read a lot though, checked the facts, I learned a lot, and I know I made an informed decision.
Given that you seem to strongly hold your view, I will assume that you have heard a lot of negative things about the EU, or positive things about being a non member state, probably both. I suggest a lot of what you have heard is either untrue or misrepresented.

Baldseagull · Dec 1, 2018

bazbha said:
The arrogance & patronising attitude continues. Voting leave or remain is an opinion. Where does stupidity come in to it? You are disappointed in the result as are many others. I gave it a lot of thought. As the British people were denied a vote for over 40 years there has been plenty of time to think. Amazing the need for a second vote within 4 years when we didn't vote as we were meant to!

Ok, perhaps I should have said research rather than thought, maybe there was not enough thought about whether what they were hearing was true or not. If it chimed with what they already believed or wanted to believe, most people, me included, don't question it too much. I am going to post a link that I hope you have a look at, its a list of Headlines that have appeared in the UK press, and if you click on them you will see the fact as opposed to the lie, it's a long list. https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

We have all seen these types of story over the years, and it feeds into our mistrust of the EU, and makes it easier to be sold the next negative spin about the EU.
All that said, there are definitely some issues with the EU and it isn't all gravy, but you can find the same and worse in Westminster.

clapham_gull · Dec 1, 2018

I'm interested how the Leavers feel about the strong possibility that we will end up even out of Europe with continuation/concessions of freedom on movement.

Brexit stopped becoming a simple binary argument very soon after the negotiations take place.

My observation is the political classes on the Brexit side are generally more concerned with sovereignty than immigration.

The only politician, The Prime Minister appears to have gone large on freedom of movement at the expense of sovereignty. She appears to be the only one mentioning it at all.

So leavers, what is more important to you ? Regaining sovereignty or stopping freedom of movement from the EU ?

It's looking increasingly unlikely you will get both as cross party consensus will block a no-deal leave.

What would you concede to leave the EU ?

Pavilionaire · Dec 1, 2018

bazbha said:
Who on earth said it was just about immigration? No one that I know or ever met!

Talk to anyome or 55 or that reads the Daily Mail, or visit your local golf club.

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[Politics] Brexit – what will happen?

Brexit – what will happen?

May will get her plan through parliament, we leave softly softly

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May doesn’t get plan through, leadership contest or General Election – another referendum

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