[Misc] Exam results

Acker79 · Aug 13, 2020

Lower West Stander said:
I've not read the whole thread, but there seems to be an inherent assumption (at least in the press) that everyone deserves to get good grades and it isn't fair if you don't. If grades are better than predicted then hey that's fantastic but no one is going to moan about that.

Sounds to me like everyone who didn't get to where they wanted to go has a free lunch to have a bloody good moan because it isn't fair. There is no suggestion at all that any of these students actually didn't do as well as they wanted to and therefore don't deserve to go to their 1st choice uni. Three years ago my daughter's English A Level paper was mismarked (her grade went from C to A* on appeal) and it nearly screwed up her university education - now that's not fair.

What I do know is that its a damn sight easier to get into university now than it was when I was doing my A Levels in the mid 80s.

That seems to misunderstand the problem. It's not a case of 'I did this exam and didn't get the mark I wanted so I'm gonna use this covid as an excuse to claim I've been marked unfairly;. It's a case of 'I didn't get to take an exam and some computer has decided I would have failed because x% of students failed this exam last year'.

People aren't complaining because they took the assessment and the mark they got for the assessment isn't what they felt they deserved for it based on their own opinion of their own work. It's that every metric, all the essays and homework done over the first year and a half of their course all indicate they are on course for a particular mark, but that is not the mark they have been awarded. Someone, somewhere, somehow has decided that this student who is tracking for A will be a student that would have fallen short had they taken the exam, so awarded them a B instead. And the only reason that seems to have been given is that last year more people got Bs than As, so we have to give so many Bs.

It is entirely possible that some of those being marked down, would have fallen short. But that would have been a mark based on their actual work, not on the spread of results from the previous year's class.

Lower West Stander · Aug 13, 2020

Acker79 said:
That seems to misunderstand the problem. It's not a case of 'I did this exam and didn't get the mark I wanted so I'm gonna use this covid as an excuse to claim I've been marked unfairly;. It's a case of 'I didn't get to take an exam and some computer has decided I would have failed because x% of students failed this exam last year'.

People aren't complaining because they took the assessment and the mark they got for the assessment isn't what they felt they deserved for it based on their own opinion of their own work. It's that every metric, all the essays and homework done over the first year and a half of their course all indicate they are on course for a particular mark, but that is not the mark they have been awarded. Someone, somewhere, somehow has decided that this student who is tracking for A will be a student that would have fallen short had they taken the exam, so awarded them a B instead. And the only reason that seems to have been given is that last year more people got Bs than As, so we have to give so many Bs.

It is entirely possible that some of those being marked down, would have fallen short. But that would have been a mark based on their actual work, not on the spread of results from the previous year's class.

I take your point (and there's no doubt this is a mess) but there has to be some form of measurement based on perception of ability.

It is right there are more Bs than As, grade inflation has already gone too far. This may sound harsh but sometimes in life you don't get what you want and if that happens you just have to get you head down and go again, not squeal that life isn't fair. Its already far easier to get into university than it used to be.

Its going to get to the stage where there will be no point in any form of test and 18 year olds will able to go to whichever uni they want by right.....

Thunder Bolt · Aug 13, 2020

Chicken Run said:
Listening to 5 live there seems to be an incredible amount of pupils who would have “pulled it out the bag” if they had sat the exams!!

I could have sworn the old arguments use to be that students freeze on exam day!!

The teachers are questioning it too, not just the pupils.
My grandson is in his GCSE year so will get his results next week but did take Additional Maths. He got a C and felt disappointed. He emailed his teacher who had submitted a B for him. Algorithms and statistics are used, the same ones that Gavin Williamson has said sorry for with regards to Scotland.

Acker79 · Aug 13, 2020

Lower West Stander said:
I take your point (and there's no doubt this is a mess) but there has to be some form of measurement based on perception of ability.

It is right there are more Bs than As, grade inflation has already gone too far. This may sound harsh but sometimes in life you don't get what you want and if that happens you just have to get you head down and go again, not squeal that life isn't fair. Its already far easier to get into university than it used to be.

Its going to get to the stage where there will be no point in any form of test and 18 year olds will able to go to whichever uni they want by right.....

I wouldn't say it sounds harsh, I'd say it sounds like you're ignoring what the complaints actually are so you can spout the yearly cliche drivel about softening of generations, easier a-levels, parents dictating to teachers, etc etc. You seem to be conflating your own issues with higher/further education and the softening of today's kids - the sort of stuff that gets trotted out every year - with a very specific, very real issue around the processes of producing results while adapting to a unique set of circumstances.

This year, your argument (spouted by many people every year) about kids not accepting the grade they deserve, a-levels being too easy, or whatever really needs to be shelved. This is not a normal year, so the normal arguments don't apply. Don't worry, all being well with the pandemic, you'll be able to bring it back next year.

Acker79 · Aug 13, 2020

[tweet]1293856989433532416[/tweet]

Deportivo Seagull · Aug 13, 2020

Lower West Stander said:
What I do know is that its a damn sight easier to get into university now than it was when I was doing my A Levels in the mid 80s.

That’s because there are a darn site more universities and so places now then the 80’s. The aspirations of kids in the 80’s were a lot different. Only posh kids or kids from whore collar families went to uni, hence why I joined the RN at 16, eventually went to uni at 27.

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blockhseagull · Aug 13, 2020

Lower West Stander said:
I take your point (and there's no doubt this is a mess) but there has to be some form of measurement based on perception of ability.

It is right there are more Bs than As, grade inflation has already gone too far. This may sound harsh but sometimes in life you don't get what you want and if that happens you just have to get you head down and go again, not squeal that life isn't fair. Its already far easier to get into university than it used to be.

Its going to get to the stage where there will be no point in any form of test and 18 year olds will able to go to whichever uni they want by right.....

So someone who has A’s in all their school assessments, mock exams and predicted an A should just suck it up when they get downgraded to a B because of an algorithm..... not because they have been unfairly marked, not because they have not worked hard, not because they struggled with the final exam.

Your “sometimes in life you don’t get what you want” is complete and utter rubbish in this situation.

beorhthelm · Aug 13, 2020

Chicken Run said:
Listening to 5 live there seems to be an incredible amount of pupils who would have “pulled it out the bag” if they had sat the exams!!

I could have sworn the old arguments use to be that students freeze on exam day!!

also not hearing much about those that got a surprisingly good grade, because they happen to be in a good school.

HHGull · Aug 13, 2020

Deportivo Seagull said:
That’s because there are a darn site more universities and so places now then the 80’s. The aspirations of kids in the 80’s were a lot different. Only posh kids or kids from whore collar families went to uni, hence why I joined the RN at 16, eventually went to uni at 27.

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Baker lite · Aug 13, 2020

Deportivo Seagull said:
That’s because there are a darn site more universities and so places now then the 80’s. The aspirations of kids in the 80’s were a lot different. Only posh kids or kids from whore collar families went to uni, hence why I joined the RN at 16, eventually went to uni at 27.

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This is a fair point well made, when I left school in 87 there was very few that went onto Uni, most of us went into apprenticeships and such like. Back in the day a Uni degree really meant something, now there are some truly bizarre degrees knocking about.

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KZNSeagull · Aug 13, 2020

blockhseagull said:
So someone who has A’s in all their school assessments, mock exams and predicted an A should just suck it up when they get downgraded to a B because of an algorithm..... not because they have been unfairly marked, not because they have not worked hard, not because they struggled with the final exam.

Your “sometimes in life you don’t get what you want” is complete and utter rubbish in this situation.

They have just said on the news that in Wales, if the teachers grade assessments had been taken as the final grade, 40% of students would have got an A or A*. I am not saying that what has happened is correct, but having so many students getting top grades cannot be helpful, can it?

Lower West Stander · Aug 13, 2020

Acker79 said:
I wouldn't say it sounds harsh, I'd say it sounds like you're ignoring what the complaints actually are so you can spout the yearly cliche drivel about softening of generations, easier a-levels, parents dictating to teachers, etc etc. You seem to be conflating your own issues with higher/further education and the softening of today's kids - the sort of stuff that gets trotted out every year - with a very specific, very real issue around the processes of producing results while adapting to a unique set of circumstances.

This year, your argument (spouted by many people every year) about kids not accepting the grade they deserve, a-levels being too easy, or whatever really needs to be shelved. This is not a normal year, so the normal arguments don't apply. Don't worry, all being well with the pandemic, you'll be able to bring it back next year.

The complaints will be the same every year regardless of whether there is a pandemic or not.

You may consider it "drivel". Your view. But the system is incredibly one sided around those who do not succeed - there is always a reason and the ability to appeal. I said I took your point - and I still do - but it still feeds the increasing sense of entitlement A Level students have around going to their chosen place of study.

Life isn't fair sometimes - something i think we have all experienced. Sometimes you just have to deal with it - and if it happens when you are 18 it will be a good preparation for things you have to deal with in later life.

Deportivo Seagull · Aug 13, 2020

HHGull said:

Oh Bollocks.

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Lower West Stander · Aug 13, 2020

Deportivo Seagull said:
That’s because there are a darn site more universities and so places now then the 80’s. The aspirations of kids in the 80’s were a lot different. Only posh kids or kids from whore collar families went to uni, hence why I joined the RN at 16, eventually went to uni at 27.

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Speak for yourself.

I was not posh or from a white collar family and I went to uni in the 80s

Deportivo Seagull · Aug 13, 2020

Miss Depor got A*, A, A. Which is what she has been getting in tests ,homework, mocks etc throughout the year. She went to BHASVIC where they test at every opportunity. Funnily enough one of the complaints about BHASVIC concerns too much testing and the pressure that goes with it. Suspect this won’t be the case going forward.
She needed B, B ,B for child nursing at Univeristy of Nottingham so is very pleased.
One of her friends was actually dropped one grade though it doesn’t affect their uni offer.

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Chicken Run · Aug 13, 2020

KZNSeagull said:
They have just said on the news that in Wales, if the teachers grade assessments had been taken as the final grade, 40% of students would have got an A or A*. I am not saying that what has happened is correct, but having so many students getting top grades cannot be helpful, can it?

Adrian Chiles show on 5 live said similar

Chicken Run · Aug 13, 2020

Deportivo Seagull said:
Miss Depor got A*, A, A. Which is what she has been getting in tests ,homework, mocks etc throughout the year. She went to BHASVIC where they test at every opportunity. Funnily enough one of the complaints about BHASVIC concerns too much testing and the pressure that goes with it. Suspect this won’t be the case going forward.
She needed B, B ,B for child nursing at Univeristy of Nottingham so is very pleased.
One of her friends was actually dropped one grade though it doesn’t affect their uni offer.

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Good news.

Gwylan · Aug 13, 2020

Deportivo Seagull said:
That’s because there are a darn site more universities and so places now then the 80’s. The aspirations of kids in the 80’s were a lot different. Only posh kids or kids from whore collar families went to uni

Not just more universities but more places in those unis (my old uni has gone up from 5,000 to 14,000)

It wasn't just posh kids who went: I'm certainly not from a posh background but I got in - there were grants in those days to make things easier

There was one other big difference: a certain percentage of A level marks were failures. In theory, it was possible to get 75% in an A level and fail it (this never happened of course but it was a possibility). There was also a limited number of As, it made it much easier to assess a student's worth. I'm not sure how a system where so many people get top marks help colleges,

Deportivo Seagull · Aug 13, 2020

Lower West Stander said:
Speak for yourself.

I was not posh or from a white collar family and I went to uni in the 80s

Proportion of public school v state school was much higher than it is now.

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timbha · Aug 13, 2020

Deportivo Seagull said:
Miss Depor got A*, A, A. Which is what she has been getting in tests ,homework, mocks etc throughout the year. She went to BHASVIC where they test at every opportunity. Funnily enough one of the complaints about BHASVIC concerns too much testing and the pressure that goes with it. Suspect this won’t be the case going forward.
She needed B, B ,B for child nursing at Univeristy of Nottingham so is very pleased.
One of her friends was actually dropped one grade though it doesn’t affect their uni offer.

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well done Miss D. I suspect culturally BHASVIC still operates under a stricter and more educational regime that some sixth forms, preparing its students for pressures that may lie ahead in life. Whatever next? I must complain that little Jimmy Thicko who didn't attend his lectures or do his homework didn't get the grades he wanted (as opposed to what he deserved). After all, he's not very good at exams (or coursework) and it's not fair that he can't go to the university of his choice. Robbed of his future by the system!

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[Misc] Exam results

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