[Politics] Mark Field

DavidinSouthampton · Jun 21, 2019

SollysLeftFoot said:
Ah, of course. Fascism... didn't take long for this to be alleged.

To anybody with any knowledge of 20th century history, there are a fair number of similarities between pre warGefmany in the 1930s and what is happening in this country today. This doesn't mean we are about to annex the Sudetenland or invade France, but the rubbishing of the opposing point of view and tendency to stifle informed debate are there.

portlock seagull · Jun 21, 2019

DavidinSouthampton said:
To anybody with any knowledge of 20th century history, there are a fair number of similarities between pre warGefmany in the 1930s and what is happening in this country today. This doesn't mean we are about to annex the Sudetenland or invade France, but the rubbishing of the opposing point of view and tendency to stifle informed debate are there.

Only similarities that can be drawn by comparing to many periods, the commonality being people and politicians. To compare now with 1930s Germany is hyperbole in the main. I’m not buying it and yes, I’ve done my early and mid 20th century studies. It’s a very shitty situation all the same!

Hastings gull · Jun 21, 2019

DavidinSouthampton said:
To anybody with any knowledge of 20th century history, there are a fair number of similarities between pre warGefmany in the 1930s and what is happening in this country today. This doesn't mean we are about to annex the Sudetenland or invade France, but the rubbishing of the opposing point of view and tendency to stifle informed debate are there.

Oh, come on - rubbishing an opposing view is hardly a modern phenomenon.

The Clamp · Jun 21, 2019

Hastings gull said:
Oh, come on - rubbishing an opposing view is hardly a modern phenomenon.

Isn't that precisely what he is saying?

DavidinSouthampton · Jun 22, 2019

portlock seagull said:
Only similarities that can be drawn by comparing to many periods, the commonality being people and politicians. To compare now with 1930s Germany is hyperbole in the main. I’m not buying it and yes, I’ve done my early and mid 20th century studies. It’s a very shitty situation all the same!

Agreed. I was only using 1930s Germany as the obvious example, hence the "we won't invade France " bit.

DavidinSouthampton · Jun 22, 2019

Hastings gull said:
Oh, come on - rubbishing an opposing view is hardly a modern phenomenon.

No, but the level that it is at currently is worrying. Apart from anything else, when people talk of the need for the next prime minister to unite the country, that's going to be quite a task.
If we were to end up with a no deal BREXIT, there could well be public disorder.
If BREXIT were to be abandoned, there could well be public disorder.
Maybe gettingxdlightly off the point there, but we are living in times of extremes.

Maybe one of the best examples is the continued rubbishing and criticism of the BBC. Even the prime ministerial candidate thing the other night where Emily Maitlis was criticised in some quarters forvgiving the candidates a hard time. That's what she is there for, for goodness sake, and would have done the same whichever party they were.

And how often are the Brexit Party or UKIP complaining just because the media is pointing out that what they are saying is simply not true, factually incorrect!

Norman Potting · Jun 22, 2019

DavidinSouthampton said:
No, but the level that it is at currently is worrying. Apart from anything else, when people talk of the need for the next prime minister to unite the country, that's going to be quite a task.
If we were to end up with a no deal BREXIT, there could well be public disorder.
If BREXIT were to be abandoned, there could well be public disorder.
Maybe gettingxdlightly off the point there, but we are living in times of extremes.

Maybe one of the best examples is the continued rubbishing and criticism of the BBC. Even the prime ministerial candidate thing the other night where Emily Maitlis was criticised in some quarters forvgiving the candidates a hard time. That's what she is there for, for goodness sake, and would have done the same whichever party they were.

And how often are the Brexit Party or UKIP complaining just because the media is pointing out that what they are saying is simply not true, factually incorrect!

Good point, well made. Hot summer(ok no sign of it yet)/dwindling police resources/Brexit issues. Glad I don't live in an inner city area.

Neville's Breakfast · Jun 22, 2019

DavidinSouthampton said:
To anybody with any knowledge of 20th century history, there are a fair number of similarities between pre warGefmany in the 1930s and what is happening in this country today. This doesn't mean we are about to annex the Sudetenland or invade France, but the rubbishing of the opposing point of view and tendency to stifle informed debate are there.

The quality of debate declined significantly after the result of the referendum. Anybody who voted leave being called stupid and a fascist. Those on NSC who indulged in that (and there are a fair few) takes some responsibility for the current position.

Thunder Bolt · Jun 22, 2019

And so the finger pointing continues.

Deleted member 22389 · Jun 22, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
The quality of debate declined significantly after the result of the referendum. Anybody who voted leave being called stupid and a fascist. Those on NSC who indulged in that (and there are a fair few) takes some responsibility for the current position.

Well said.

Dick Head · Jun 22, 2019

Pinkie Brown said:
The lady in the pictures is Jeremy Hunts wife not Fields. In case it wasn't entirely obvious.....

View attachment 111808

View attachment 111809

Yes, his Japanese wife.

darkwolf666 · Jun 22, 2019

My dad's bigger than your dad, no he's not, etc. Pathetic name calling that belongs in a primary school playground!

Stat Brother · Jun 22, 2019

DavidinSouthampton said:
No, but the level that it is at currently is worrying. Apart from anything else, when people talk of the need for the next prime minister to unite the country, that's going to be quite a task.
If we were to end up with a no deal BREXIT, there could well be public disorder.
If BREXIT were to be abandoned, there could well be public disorder.
Maybe gettingxdlightly off the point there, but we are living in times of extremes.

Maybe one of the best examples is the continued rubbishing and criticism of the BBC. Even the prime ministerial candidate thing the other night where Emily Maitlis was criticised in some quarters forvgiving the candidates a hard time. That's what she is there for, for goodness sake, and would have done the same whichever party they were.

And how often are the Brexit Party or UKIP complaining just because the media is pointing out that what they are saying is simply not true, factually incorrect!

To prove your point, 'Stasi' is trending on twitter.

Apparently BoJo got into a rumpus at home, last night, the neighbours (Stasi) reported it to the police and ...

...The Guardian.

Kinky Gerbil · Jun 22, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
Equally, Field has unreservedly apologized and said he was in the wrong. People appear to be getting offended for him...

I’m not offended for anyone

It’s just been blown completely out of hand.

Could he have dealt with It better? Yes

Is the reaction way over the top? Yes

Someone got thrown out of somewhere they should not have been, I doubt security would have been any different if they had done their job properly.

beorhthelm · Jun 22, 2019

DavidinSouthampton said:
No, but the level that it is at currently is worrying. Apart from anything else, when people talk of the need for the next prime minister to unite the country, that's going to be quite a task.
If we were to end up with a no deal BREXIT, there could well be public disorder.
If BREXIT were to be abandoned, there could well be public disorder.
Maybe gettingxdlightly off the point there, but we are living in times of extremes.

my observation is those claiming risk of public disorder are the middle classes, on both sides, as a weapon of fear against the other. they arent going to engage in public disorder.

hans kraay fan club · Jun 22, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
The quality of debate declined significantly after the result of the referendum. Anybody who voted leave being called stupid and a fascist. Those on NSC who indulged in that (and there are a fair few) takes some responsibility for the current position.

Sorry, but the ‘quality of the debate’ declined way before that. The unchecked lies, the false claims, Farage’s racist poster, 70m Turks, etc.

Kinky Gerbil · Jun 22, 2019

beorhthelm said:
my observation is those claiming risk of public disorder are the middle classes, on both sides, as a weapon of fear against the other. they arent going to engage in public disorder.

The whole idea of there being riots if there is no Brexit is bizarre, they can’t even get an MP elected in Peterborough.

dingodan · Jun 22, 2019

I would have replied to this thread earlier, but I was too outraged.

Neville's Breakfast · Jun 22, 2019

hans kraay fan club said:
Sorry, but the ‘quality of the debate’ declined way before that. The unchecked lies, the false claims, Farage’s racist poster, 70m Turks, etc.

I thought we were talking about the aggressive contempt some have for people with different opinions. I agree with you about Farage’s poster. However,in my view, the debate about Turkey was legitimate given the enormous changes that had taken place between 1975 and 2016. Do you see ? There is a respectable opinion to be engaged with rather than dismissed and the style in which you engage does matter. Unchecked lies and false claims ? Just like fake news that has been going on for all of time.
If we all want an atmosphere of civil discourse in our politics then people need to stop exaggerating to make a point and sometimes accept that we agree with our opponent rather than just branding them a stupid, racist liar. If you don’t seek a middle ground then you will get extremes. It really is that simple.

Thunder Bolt · Jun 22, 2019

Kinky Gerbils said:
I’m not offended for anyone

It’s just been blown completely out of hand.

Could he have dealt with It better? Yes

Is the reaction way over the top? Yes

Someone got thrown out of somewhere they should not have been, I doubt security would have been any different if they had done their job properly.

If you watch the longer version of the recording security were dealing with the other 30 odd women properly.

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