[Politics] Brexit

Two Professors · Feb 13, 2019

nicko31 said:
How could I have been sitting on this since 2016, it includes trade deals with Japan and Singapore?

I know you don't care and you deem it meaningless, fair enough its your opinion. But please do keep up...

Sorry,it was you mentioned 2016.Very little spare time atm!

Two Professors · Feb 13, 2019

The Clamp said:
Wind your neck in. People are losing their jobs over this now. You’re the kind of hateful person that would have jeered at miners in the 80’s and told them it’s Thatcher getting control back from the unions. Hang your head in shame. You did this.

Chopper has been abusing me since the start of the thread,so with all due respect,sod off.

Lincoln Imp · Feb 13, 2019

bashlsdir;8778638 Ford are cutting jobs worldwide.[/QUOTE said:
Just the time to make the UK less attractive then. They must be grateful to the government for making the decision-making process simpler.

Two Professors · Feb 13, 2019

Lincoln Imp said:
'Little production'? How does that square with 13,000 direct employees?

And your proof for those numbers?

Two Professors · Feb 13, 2019

Publius Ovidius said:
Fake news

Every country is queueing up to give us feee trade deals and even paying us to take their goods and are prepared to pay well over the odds to buy our steel, ships, cars, coal, gas, oil, financial services, baking TVs shows.

It's all going to be great.

Baker lite, or PPF, his alte ego tells us.

I could certainly do with an alter ego.

The Clamp · Feb 13, 2019

Two Professors said:
Chopper has been abusing me since the start of the thread,so with all due respect,sod off.

Doesn’t excuse your utter disdain for those losing their livelihoods. Get a grip. You’re the worst kind of Little Englander. History will judge you harshly. As will your children and grandchildren.

Simster · Feb 13, 2019

Two Professors said:
Chopper has been abusing me since the start of the thread,so with all due respect,sod off.

I'm tired of talking to you to be honest, so I'm going to explain why this is and then duck out:

To be fair, you rarely deal with facts. Your posts on here are more concerned with responding to name calling or really unfunny attempted put-downs that don't work or even make sense. You only care about Brexit happening, not how it happens and you don't question what price might not be worth paying. You don't put well constructed arguments together like cunning fergus or pastafarian that genuinely make remainers think about their position. I have come round to [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION]'s view that the democratic nature of Brexit must be enacted upon, for example. He is right IMO, it must proceed.

Here, [MENTION=21314]Raleigh Chopper[/MENTION] indulged in name-calling like 95% of us have done on this incredibly embarrassing, argumentative thread - and that is the only part of his otherwise well constructed post that you responded to, which just about sums you up.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Feb 13, 2019

Simster said:
I don't think anybody predicted this shambles 3 years ago. Indeed, plenty of Brexiteers would have told you that the process of leaving might be painful but worth it. It is the gammon on here I have a problem with - the ones with their fingers in their ears, who don't seem to care about any fallout as long as they win, and who don't acknowledge ANY of the evidence that everything isn't going very badly indeed. I'd prefer to see more sensible rebuttals of remainer bad news such as [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION]'s Ford-related evidence above. Certainly mediocre occasional small pieces of good news doesn't prove anything.

The fundamental issue - to me anyway - has always been that there is no necessary relationship between the political (ideological) case for leaving and the economic case. One doesn't imply or lead to the other. Indeed, it's pretty obvious (look at the emerging evidence, check-out the theory, listen to trade experts) that the economic case on its own is not only weak but pretty much nonsense. The really honest Brexit folk might admit this i.e. that the political case trumps the economic downside. But few have ever done so, other than conceding that there might be 'short-term disruption'. I'm sure that some of these folk grasp the realities but cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it (publicly anyway). I for one would have huge respect for anyone that did. There's an awful lot of delusion going on out there,

JCL666 · Feb 13, 2019

cunning fergus said:
Scottish independence if it comes will be the express democratic will of the Scottish people, I don’t see why that is a problem. The ongoing mess in Catalonia is not a measure of how “independence” should be dealt with imo.

The key to independence in any nation is their currency, and the Nationalist movement in Scotland will always struggle to convey a vision of independence without their own currency.

This is essentially an unsolvable problem, the SNP pre the last referendum conceded that they could not afford an independent currency and the euro was deeply unpopular, albeit it was at a time when Greece was collapsing.

Scottish independence will be possible if the Scots essentially decide to go all in with the euro.

That won’t happen though because it is less independence than they have now, and also why apart from the pro EU Zealots the UK is going to be in a perpetual EU Brexit debate until we eventually leave lock stock and barrel or join the euro?

I have absolutely no problem with Scottish independence or a united Ireland.

From what I've read, since 2014 there are actually a number of currency options fo Scotland that have been explored/evaluated, some of which look viable. Going all in with the Euro is not the only one.

There will always be an issue regarding the pro/cons of EU as there is in all member states, however as has been said many many times in this thread, this issue would not of needed to be addressed with this brexit bllx if issues around disenfranchisement had been addressed as well as the disconnect between government/politics and people.

JC Footy Genius · Feb 13, 2019

Two Professors said:
If you have been sat on that since 2016,what a relief that must be.Almost like having the guy back posting all the meaningless charts and graphs,but it brightened up the page a bit.

Perhaps the #teameu crew that often go on about the importance of being in the 'worlds largest trade block' with all those wonderful trade deals could explain why over the last decade being in the EU has produced an average 0.7 GDP growth (0.4 in the Eurozone) for it's members whereas major advanced G7 nations have seen 1.0% growth, advanced economies excluding G7 and Eurozone have seen 2.4 growth, other regions and trade blocks also seeing much higher GDP growth .....

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/economic-dataworlds-gdp-growth-by-region

Shirley such a powerhouse economic block with major negotiating clout should be leading the way ....

Baker lite · Feb 13, 2019

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
There's a line somewhere labelled 'decency' which this just has crossed.

Oh do behave yourself, stroppy little house cat.

On our way.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bold Seagull · Feb 13, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Perhaps the #teameu crew that often go on about the importance of being in the 'worlds largest trade block' with all those wonderful trade deals could explain why over the last decade being in the EU has produced an average 0.7 GDP growth (0.4 in the Eurozone) for it's members whereas major advanced G7 nations have seen 1.0% growth, advanced economies excluding G7 and Eurozone have seen 2.4 growth, other regions and trade blocks also seeing much higher GDP growth .....

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/economic-dataworlds-gdp-growth-by-region

Shirley such a powerhouse economic block with major negotiating clout should be leading the way ....

Aren't the major advanced G7 nations that have seen 1.0% growth the EU, UK, France, Italy, Germany, as well as Japan, US and Canada?

Why don't you explain how these statistics should be read in your own unique way?

Lincoln Imp · Feb 13, 2019

Two Professors said:
And your proof for those numbers?

Well I suppose if you don't believe me you could Google the question "How many employees does Ford have in the UK".

Do share your findings with us.

Two Professors · Feb 13, 2019

The Clamp said:
Doesn’t excuse your utter disdain for those losing their livelihoods. Get a grip. You’re the worst kind of Little Englander. History will judge you harshly. As will your children and grandchildren.

Don't be more of a drama queen than you usually are.Ford employees,including one of my brothers-in-law who worked at Ford's Leamington plant,have been living with redundancy on their shoulders since the 1980's.

nicko31 · Feb 13, 2019

Simster said:
The one problem I foresee with a referendum on Scottish independence is that referendums are open to abuse. We've seen it here where people voted for or against leaving the EU without enough of the facts to hand, but of course once the vote is done, none of that matters because to reverse it or hold another referendum is seen to be undemocratic.

But moving on from that, and onto Scottish currency in particular, I just don't see why you consider the currency issue a problem. There are several options and one must surely be a good fit for them:
* retain Sterling, ideally in a currency union
* retain Sterling anyway, even if the UK reject a currency union
* independently peg their own new currency to Sterling
* join the Euro

I don't think the last option is a very good one in the long run because their economy is structured much like ours and not like European countries - it is built on house borrowing (which is why I think the Euro will one day prove very bad for Ireland).

And maybe they could just leave economic decisions like what currency to adopt to a largely ill-informed electorate? If their politicians are as crap as the Tories, they won't give a toss what damage they do as long as they moronically plough on with the winning solution.

There would be challenges for Scotland with the currency.

But with England / Wales going it alone surely an opportunity as a small country to lure business from England and offer vitual access to SM & CU.

Their only regret will be not going for independence earlier, if they had done that right now they would be laughing

Two Professors · Feb 13, 2019

Simster said:
I'm tired of talking to you to be honest, so I'm going to explain why this is and then duck out:

To be fair, you rarely deal with facts. Your posts on here are more concerned with responding to name calling or really unfunny attempted put-downs that don't work or even make sense. You only care about Brexit happening, not how it happens and you don't question what price might not be worth paying. You don't put well constructed arguments together like cunning fergus or pastafarian that genuinely make remainers think about their position. I have come round to [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION]'s view that the democratic nature of Brexit must be enacted upon, for example. He is right IMO, it must proceed.

Here, [MENTION=21314]Raleigh Chopper[/MENTION] indulged in name-calling like 95% of us have done on this incredibly embarrassing, argumentative thread - and that is the only part of his otherwise well constructed post that you responded to, which just about sums you up.

When I have tried to debate with any of your ilk,the abuse just wears you down,just like kids in the schoolyard.Do you lot learn it at momentum skool?You are all totally incapable of coping with the real world,and think if you stick your fingers in your ears and shout 'Its all because of Brexit',that will make it better.FFS wake up and get a grip! :thumbsup:

Two Professors · Feb 13, 2019

Lincoln Imp said:
Well I suppose if you don't believe me you could Google the question "How many employees does Ford have in the UK".

Do share your findings with us.

Seeing as how you raised the question in the first place,don't be so needy.Do it yourself.

JCL666 · Feb 13, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Perhaps the #teameu crew that often go on about the importance of being in the 'worlds largest trade block' with all those wonderful trade deals could explain why over the last decade being in the EU has produced an average 0.7 GDP growth (0.4 in the Eurozone) for it's members whereas major advanced G7 nations have seen 1.0% growth, advanced economies excluding G7 and Eurozone have seen 2.4 growth, other regions and trade blocks also seeing much higher GDP growth .....

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/economic-dataworlds-gdp-growth-by-region

Shirley such a powerhouse economic block with major negotiating clout should be leading the way ....

For starters the subprime crisis and it's effect on certain economies. We recorded an all time low in 2009, which will skew any averages that include the last ten years.

Simster · Feb 13, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Perhaps the #teameu crew that often go on about the importance of being in the 'worlds largest trade block' with all those wonderful trade deals could explain why over the last decade being in the EU has produced an average 0.7 GDP growth (0.4 in the Eurozone) for it's members whereas major advanced G7 nations have seen 1.0% growth, advanced economies excluding G7 and Eurozone have seen 2.4 growth, other regions and trade blocks also seeing much higher GDP growth .....

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/economic-dataworlds-gdp-growth-by-region

Shirley such a powerhouse economic block with major negotiating clout should be leading the way ....

Interesting, so I went to data world bank to look at this.

10 year growth by country:
Canada 1.179678583
Germany 1.123324396
France 1.072077959
United Kingdom 1.115039812
Italy 0.945136667
Japan 1.052720777
United States 1.149420784

Italy has been a basket case, France sluggish, but Germany and the UK have been fine. The second slowest growth in the G7 in that 10 year period was Japan. And this is the problem with growth figures. If your GDP starts at £1, then growing to £2 represents 100% growth, but it doesn't mean your economy isn't a crock of shit:

Simster · Feb 13, 2019

Two Professors said:
When I have tried to debate with any of your ilk,the abuse just wears you down,just like kids in the schoolyard.Do you lot learn it at momentum skool?You are all totally incapable of coping with the real world,and think if you stick your fingers in your ears and shout 'Its all because of Brexit',that will make it better.FFS wake up and get a grip!

I can honestly say I have never seen try to debate sensibly on this thread. Ever.

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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

Remain

Leave

Wouldn’t vote

Two Mad Professors

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