We will recover because we always have? What sort of argument is that? If anyone is losing the argument it's the person who resorts to woolly baseless cross-your-fingers-and-count-to-3 statements like this.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
We will recover because we always have? What sort of argument is that? If anyone is losing the argument it's the person who resorts to woolly baseless cross-your-fingers-and-count-to-3 statements like this.
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
it's a historically successful and proven formula,ask the Aztec's..
Thomas Bayes might beg to differ.
portslade seagull
Well-known member
The economy whether it is ours or others run in cycles. They have upturns often followed by dips or major downturns. It's part of life ane we have all lived through them, even you
Logically you're saying that something will always happen because it has happened in the past. Written like this do you not see the very obvious flaw in this formula?
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
I understand the emotional power of your position, which perhaps can be compared to that of a pacifist who would like his country to leave NATO, whilst at the same time unilaterally disarming.
It is the detail I’m unsure of.
You say that markets unfettered by state intervention are a disaster, apparently claiming that the UK, even more the EU, doesn’t usefully intervene at all in the markets. One of the great arguments of your fellow-Brexiters is that state intervention within the EU is far too great and that the UK will prosper greatly with less control and more freedom.
Given your overall position I understand why you are strongly against workers being able to create a free labour market by having the freedom to move around Europe, and indeed the right to move around within their own countries).
You make the point that an inability of a state to control supply and demand is ‘disastrous’. Clearly the government of every Western European nation has some ability to influence supply and demand but your point is that ‘control’ is essential to avoid disaster. I’m no student of the subject but that does sound like a paean for Soviet communism. Perhaps you are right though. Perhaps controlling supply and demand can work. Which countries do you feel best provide examples of this?
The position of left-thinking people on the issue of Brexit is interesting. You have resolved any conflicts in your own mind.
Some haven’t though. I have a friend who is further to the left than anyone I know. He is probably further to the left than anyone almost anyone knows. Perhaps he is a classical Marxist, I don’t know. For the reasons you describe he inended to vote Leave in the referendum.
But as the campaign got rolling he became so revolted by the tone of many of the pro-Leave arguments and so horrified by the rhetoric and beliefs of some of the leading Leave campaigners that he he eventually voted (probably holding his nose) for Remain. You can see why he was worried. Following the Brexit vote, political reality in the UK sees the Tory right with more power than it has had for a generation. The maths mean that there is every possibility that it could retain this power for a decade or far longer, years that will see worker protection diminishing and our economy too often relying on us ingratiating ourselves with head-bangers across the Atlantic and head-removers in the Middle-East.
Many of your fellow Brexit supporters on here have no problem with this. But for a man of the Left helping to create this situation surely makes sleeping hard to do?
They don't run in cycles. They run in reaction to their current environment. You only need to look at top-line data over the last century to realise this.
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Maybe if the Labour Party pulls itself back from its self destructive path and starts appealing more to the working class this will not be an issue. Problem is there doesn't appear to be many electable alternatives atm
portslade seagull
Well-known member
So always dependent on the state of the world. That's why economists can predict to a degree the next probable downturn or cycle
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
Not entirely,what i was saying was that whilst it has happened and is likely to happen again things never last,what has a beginning has to have an end (here in the realm of the relative) (in the realm of the absolute however) no what i was saying is that,yes things will be probably be as they always have,however the Aztec's prove that it may not last.
Think they had a problem with mass immigration too from the EU,the Spanish.
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
Thanks for that,he makes interesting reading....
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
merely a cycle of cycles & yet more cycles within cycles of even larger never ending cycles.....everything runs ins cycles,even rouge waves at sea..the universe and even the big bang,more than one big bang,yet that is a subject matter so vast it could never be even remotely explained,the big bang is the heart beat of the creator,many trillions and trillions of big bangs..
or it could all be an accident.....
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
swiftly moving on 
Mrs May to announce more detail on Brexit in coming weeks ........at last
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ie-ridge-article-50-plan-latest-a7515656.html
Mrs May to announce more detail on Brexit in coming weeks ........at last
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ie-ridge-article-50-plan-latest-a7515656.html
Have you been asleep since June 24th, you're in denial, current data since the referendum has generally been positive and comparitively strong with the UK posting up the fastest growing economy out of the G10.
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/5980-pound-undervalued-deutsche-bank-3434
Look mate, I dont know you and beyond a chat about Brexit or otherwise we dont need to be mates, but I would appreciate it if you lay off the personal insults, as for risks all economies have risks but there is nothing to suggest that there is any current data that suggest those risks are heightened.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,744
I am sure I don't share the same reasons for leaving as my fellow Leave voters, no more than those who remained did so for different reasons. I know people who ordinarily agree with my political outlook, but when it came to the vote, they voted remain because they considered their job would be safer. I disagreed with them, but have no axe to grind with them, they are victims of the ugly discourse from the remain side when they also held their nose.
I didn't, as whatever the outcome I wanted to be true to my core political beliefs.
I am one of the millions who were going to vote leave regardless of the debate, I have been opposed to the EU for as long as I had any sense of British politics.
Growing up all of my family were Labour, and strong committed labour voters at that, they were behind the old Labour Party values, not least on the EEC as directed by the likes of Gaskill, Benn, Foot and Shore et al. I am clear in my mind what that means, especially for the British working class and it's not communism.
New Labour and Blair pissed on the founding socialist principles of the Labour Party, and then took a great big shit on their core voters. Twenty plus years on that is the reality, the removal of clause 4 was just the first step, and why one of the founding unions (the RMT) was shamefully exiled from the Labour Party.
You and others on here can scratch your heads when I refer to you as Tories (or classical liberals), but in terms of the EU that is what you are? At best you are an unashamed internationalist who would advance the interests of free trade and its ideological benefits for all participant countries however in doing so you are prepared to hang the British working class out to dry.
That is what has happened with the EEC and now the EU, and I knew it would end this way as far back as I can remember because that is what the labour supporting members of my family told me..........and that is why (apart from those now dead) we ALL voted leave........every man jack.
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
I did not read it as directly insulting in that context,however the words "thick" and "dense" are among remains favorites for use against us mere humble unworldly sunny daydream Brexiters...
Maybe it was a thinly veiled and clever underhand attack but i would not say that all Remain are that intelligent either
You're raising the question of determinism here. A very interesting subject. I have a scientific background and I'm firmly rooted in the no, we can't determine everything camp. That said, it's 21:19 and a Sunday evening, and I'm not really wanting to go further with this at the moment. Shame it's not a Friday night and we're both in Craft Beer Co.
Jesus. I know what you think of the value of the pound as you've been blathering on about this single issue of yours for months now. For once you alluded to something broader than this, which is what interested me. I thought you might have something else to say beyond exchange rates go up and the pound was overvalued.
I think you've misread the meaning of [MENTION=23343]Baldseagull[/MENTION]s post. His was not an insult and it certainly wasn't personal as he said "guys"