[Albion] Davy Propper is a bit of an enigma wrapped up in a riddle

Richy_Seagull · Dec 23, 2018

Nixonator said:
He has only been deployed as a holding midfielder when we don't play Stephens. Otherwise he has the freedom to get forward.

Stephens v Propper heat map for season. Both play a very similar defensive role but Propper simply covers more ground. Even so he very much classed as a DM as that is how Hughton sets up with 3 behind the striker.

Bissouma playing a completely different role, not nearly as defensive.

So you’re basing your view he has the freedom to get forward on what? He is part of a team that is set up defensively to hit teams on the break. I would love to see him and Stephens get involved in the goals but I don’t see how the current system makes that realistic on a consistence basis. But he keeps the ball, has an a brilliant first touch and can pass the ball. Not sure what else can be expected.

Nixonator · Dec 23, 2018

Richy_Seagull said:
Stephens v Propper heat map for season. Both play a very similar defensive role but Propper simply covers more ground. Even so he very much classed as a DM as that is how Hughton sets up with 3 behind the striker.

Bissouma playing a completely different role, not nearly as defensive.

So you’re basing your view he has the freedom to get forward on what? He is part of a team that is set up defensively to hit teams on the break. I would love to see him and Stephens get involved in the goals but I don’t see how the current system makes that realistic on a consistence basis. But he keeps the ball, has an a brilliant first touch and can pass the ball. Not sure what else can be expected.

Bissouma has played instead of Gross in quite a few games, and Propper has played instead of Stephens in quite a few games so the heat maps aren't very telling unless on a game by game basis.

You're saying Propper covers more ground than Stephens based on an annual heatmap where one of them (Stephens) is constricted to a deep position and the other has more freedom assuming the other plays (my earlier point). If memory serves all of Gross, Stephens and Propper were near the top of the table in the PL regarding distance covered.

I agree that this is largely down to how we set up, that both our central midfielders are required to be disciplined and are rarely permitted to get into positions where they could potentially score or even assist. Having said that, when Propper plays with Stephens it is always the latter who sits further back and protects the back line.

Richy_Seagull · Dec 23, 2018

Nixonator said:
Bissouma has played instead of Gross in quite a few games, and Propper has played instead of Stephens in quite a few games so the heat maps aren't very telling unless on a game by game basis.

You're saying Propper covers more ground than Stephens based on an annual heatmap where one of them (Stephens) is constricted to a deep position and the other has more freedom assuming the other plays (my earlier point). If memory serves all of Gross, Stephens and Propper were near the top of the table in the PL regarding distance covered.

I agree that this is largely down to how we set up, that both our central midfielders are required to be disciplined and are rarely permitted to get into positions where they could potentially score or even assist. Having said that, when Propper plays with Stephens it is always the latter who sits further back and protects the back line.

Absolutely - should have been clearer but like you said, not necessarily more KM covered over 90 mins but his base position is as a DM. Very little once over the half way line so
I don’t see how it’s fair if trying to use goals and assists when judging him.

I only mentioned biss as you were saying has more key passes, which is to be expected, when on average he has played further forward with far less defensive responsibility.

Kalimantan Gull · Dec 23, 2018

dazzer6666 said:
Thought he was one of our best players today, again.

Except that he was at fault for the first goal and implicated in the second? Its all very well cooing about some nice touches and neat passes but if you're a defensive liability you shouldn't be playing the defensive midfielder role. He is so frustrating to watch this season, once you start focusing on him it makes one want to throttle him at times. Last player I remember like propper was robert codner

Not Andy Naylor · Dec 23, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
Except that he was at fault for the first goal and implicated in the second? Its all very well cooing about some nice touches and neat passes but if you're a defensive liability you shouldn't be playing the defensive midfielder role. He is so frustrating to watch this season, once you start focusing on him it makes one want to throttle him at times. Last player I remember like propper was robert codner

Absolutely correct. He made a tentative lunge at Brooks before the first goal and was then left for dead as the shot came in. He's also a defensive liability when defending set plays. He came to us as an attacking midfield player but has seldom been allowed to play that role, so I admit that judging him for defensive shortcomings is slightly unfair. That said, he has proved (Arsenal last season) that he can do better.

But in the end it's slightly futile to highlight our players' shortcomings. If they were flawless geniuses, they wouldn't be playing for us.

Frankie · Dec 23, 2018

He suits CH style of play which can seem negative at times but we are where we are implementing that style, I do think he could be utilised further forward as The Netherlands have utilised him , but that’s simply not going to happen here .

I would of expected him to have scored a few by now though and he is less than robust at winning 50-50 tackles which for a so called holding midfielder is a little concerning and my main corncern about him , he does however have a exquisite range of passing , is that enough to keep his place ? I’m not sure we can afford the luxury of a player who manages to pas it nicely now and then .

I think he will start to lose his place to Bissouma with Stephens slotting back in , Bissouma first instinct is to look forward, not that this is always the correct choice but it’s more entertaining than Propper’s style which unfortunately is pretty much always the safe option, football supporters respond to attacking intent and for me Propper will always be under scrutiny for his lack of it , it’s a tough one as he’s simply doing what he is instructed to do but the natives are becoming restless , myself included .

portslade seagull · Dec 23, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
Except that he was at fault for the first goal and implicated in the second? Its all very well cooing about some nice touches and neat passes but if you're a defensive liability you shouldn't be playing the defensive midfielder role. He is so frustrating to watch this season, once you start focusing on him it makes one want to throttle him at times. Last player I remember like propper was robert codner

Propper probably needs to play the No10 role.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 23, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
Except that he was at fault for the first goal and implicated in the second? Its all very well cooing about some nice touches and neat passes but if you're a defensive liability you shouldn't be playing the defensive midfielder role. He is so frustrating to watch this season, once you start focusing on him it makes one want to throttle him at times. Last player I remember like propper was robert codner

But if you concentrate on Stephens you’ll see similar. Neither are the perfect finished article but for me Pröpper is a quicker thinker and more dynamic and energetic player; this wins out. He also has an umlaut in his name. Personally, I think, for whatever reason, people see Stephens in a strange rose-tinted light. Someone even posted he’s the thinking man’s footballer....whatever that means.

Kalimantan Gull · Dec 23, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
But if you concentrate on Stephens you’ll see similar. Neither are the perfect finished article but for me Pröpper is a quicker thinker and more dynamic and energetic player; this wins out. He also has an umlaut in his name. Personally, I think, for whatever reason, people see Stephens in a strange rose-tinted light. Someone even posted he’s the thinking man’s footballer....whatever that means.

I do, and I don't :shrug:

To be clear, I'm talking about focusing on them when we don't have the ball.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 23, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
To be clear, I'm talking about focusing on them when we don't have the ball.

Given our possession stats we generally do focus on the players when we don’t have the ball :smile:

I hear you. We’ll have to agree to disagree though.

Kalimantan Gull · Dec 23, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
Given our possession stats we generally do focus on the players when we don’t have the ball

I hear you. We’ll have to agree to disagree though.

I'll have to agree you're blind if you prefer what propper does off the ball! :lol:

Tom Hark Preston Park · Dec 23, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
But if you concentrate on Stephens you’ll see similar. Neither are the perfect finished article but for me Pröpper is a quicker thinker and more dynamic and energetic player; this wins out. He also has an umlaut in his name. Personally, I think, for whatever reason, people see Stephens in a strange rose-tinted light. Someone even posted he’s the thinking man’s footballer....whatever that means.

Seems to a lot of over-thinking on this thread. There's many a game, especially in the first half, where our midfield appear incapable of completing a five yard pass to a team mate. Which is a failing on a par with the commonly perceived failings of Locadia. But unlike the players at the sharp ends of the pitch, the midfielders always seem to me to often get away with murder, performance-wise.

Richy_Seagull · Dec 26, 2018

Absolutely superb, again.

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[Albion] Davy Propper is a bit of an enigma wrapped up in a riddle

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