How many will follow Coventry and QPR’s lead?

Dorset Seagull · Sep 19, 2020

Surely the whole taking of the knee thing is preaching to the converted. How many racists will be convinced to change their opinion based on this act. Its down to those that are able to influence the problem of racism in a positive way that can help change the imbalance in our society.

The Antikythera Mechanism · Sep 19, 2020

If the players choose to do I guess that’s their prerogative, but I find the clenched fist unnecessary.

Bakero · Sep 19, 2020

wellquickwoody said:
Obviously bothers you as much.

Players taking the knee doesn't bother me in the slightest as it has zero effect on my enjoyment of the game. That's why I don't understand the issue others have with it. If anything, the fact that it irks some people makes me think it's worth persisting with.

wellquickwoody · Sep 19, 2020

Bakero said:
Players taking the knee doesn't bother me in the slightest as it has zero effect on my enjoyment of the game. That's why I don't understand the issue others have with it. If anything, the fact that it irks some people makes me think it's worth persisting with.

It is obviously important to you as you would not respond if it were not.

You probably espouse that ‘silence is violence’ huh?

Lenny Rider · Sep 19, 2020

Tom Hark said:
You really need to stop channeling your inner Arthur Mullard [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION] (and please don't send me a PM on this one cos it won't be acknowledged)

Given that Arthur Mullard was a sex offender what are you implying?

I won’t PM you Tom because you’ve clearly lost the plot now, just be very careful what you say in the future because it will come back to bite you at some point.

GT49er · Sep 19, 2020

Wardy's twin said:
Not sure what it is delivering at this point. The action has become repetitive and robotic, real action needs to be taken to address racism.

Hear hear!

Dorset Seagull said:
Surely the whole taking of the knee thing is preaching to the converted. How many racists will be convinced to change their opinion based on this act.

OK, I'll hazard a guess. Nil, zero, a big fat zilch.

Taking the knee may well irritate some of the people labelled as gammon - and that in itself might be seen as an outcome by some, and justify its continuation as far as they're concerned - but it will do nothing to change minds or attitudes that need to change. Very good, very effective protest against racist American police with guns, but as an ongoing all-encompassing aid to ending racism? - no, not any longer.
Education - from an early age - is the answer. Racism is essentially learned behaviour; small children don't appear to have any problem/prejudice with children of a different race/colour - education needs to hammer home the message that they are right, and that grown ups who try to inculcate a different - and unacceptable - set of values are wrong. Even for American cops with guns .................

Tom Hark Preston Park · Sep 19, 2020

Lenny Rider said:
Given that Arthur Mullard was a sex offender what are you implying?

I won’t PM you Tom because you’ve clearly lost the plot now, just be very careful what you say in the future because it will come back to bite you at some point.

Never even knew that about Arthur Mullard, so sincere humblest apologies on that front. Was referring to your recent tendency to start gorblimey shit-stirring threads that are designed primarily to feed the inhabitants of The Bear Pit. You're WAY better than that. Or at least you used to be

BN9 BHA · Sep 19, 2020

Tom Hark said:
Never even knew that about Arthur Mullard, so sincere humblest apologies on that front. Was referring to your recent tendency to start gorblimey shit-stirring threads that are designed primarily to feed the inhabitants of The Bear Pit. You're WAY better than that. Or at least you used to be

I’m getting the impression you think the op is wrong starting this thread.

As this is something that happened at a football match only yesterday evening, I think the subject is a fair talking point.
As I’ve already posted, I was surprised someone didn’t start the thread before this morning.

You’ve got to be pretty old to remember Arthur Mullard BTW :lolol:

jcdenton08 · Sep 19, 2020

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I would add that if it is annoying people that players are taking the knee this is justification alone for carrying on with it.

What? Just... what?

You're seriously saying that essentially trolling people is the best way to maintain sympathy for this cause?

A lot of people, myself included, are fully behind the sentiment of the message. It's a nice message. I think it's an empty gesture that has lost all meaning at this point and doesn't really help the cause. It's just a minor piece of lip service.

rogersix · Sep 19, 2020

wellquickwoody said:
Obviously bothers you as much.

why does it upset you so much, woody?

CaergybiGull · Sep 19, 2020

To quote The Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." You couldn't find a greater example of the antithesis of racism than the founding documents of the United States.

This is very naive. The majority of the founding fathers were slave owners, including Washington. When they made that statement it was purely an oversight that the word "white" was omitted.

Have a read of this: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/founding-fathers-and-slaveholders-72262393/ Jefferson, who penned that quote, was a complete racist.

As for the whole knee thing, I don't think it's a problem but I do think its effect will diminish.

Crispy Ambulance · Sep 19, 2020

bn9 bha said:
I’m getting the impression you think the op is wrong starting this thread.
As this is something that happened at a football match only yesterday evening, I think the subject is a fair talking point.
As I’ve already posted, I was surprised someone didn’t start the thread before this morning.

You’ve got to be pretty old to remember Arthur Mullard BTW

Didn't realise he was a nonce. Met him at some exhibition at The Brighton Centre around the time he was in the charts with Hilda Baker and their version of You're The One That I Want. Asked him for his autograph (dunno why) but didn't have any paper with me so he signed the front of my trainer, tutting like the grumpy ******* he was.

Doonhamer7 · Sep 19, 2020

What happens when a single player or ref decides to personally not to take the knee, they’ll be trolled to death. So they all have no option but to do it whether they agree with it or not. I still think the real issue was an American one. As for BLM, we’ll football had its own kick out racism - underfunded, undersupported and now nearly forgotten.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 19, 2020

jcdenton08 said:
What? Just... what?

You're seriously saying that essentially trolling people is the best way to maintain sympathy for this cause?

A lot of people, myself included, are fully behind the sentiment of the message. It's a nice message. I think it's an empty gesture that has lost all meaning at this point and doesn't really help the cause. It's just a minor piece of lip service.

Of course not. And them carrying on doing it isn't to attract sympathy for a cause.

If you think you are going against the cause, now, because you feel you are being trolled, perhaps you never agreed with the cause in the first place.

The fact you think it is 'a nice message' shows you absolutely don't get it, even if, at one time, you think you were 'fully behind the sentiment' :shrug:

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 19, 2020

Doonhamer7 said:
What happens when a single player or ref decides to personally not to take the knee, they’ll be trolled to death. So they all have no option but to do it whether they agree with it or not. I still think the real issue was an American one. As for BLM, we’ll football had its own kick out racism - underfunded, undersupported and now nearly forgotten.

Yes, trolled to death. Like that Irish player who made an anti British gesture when our national anthem was played. And rightly so. The oaf.

What message is a player (or manager) wishing to give by not taking the knee if not to signal that he disagrees with BLM?

Warburton should have managed his stance a lot better than he has done if his intentions were good. I'm not yet persuaded they were.

I certainly agree with you that racists lack the guts to not take the knee for fear of being 'trolled to death'.

Good. Tough. The key bit was this.

drew · Sep 19, 2020

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
What message is a player (or manager) wishing to give by not taking the knee if not to signal that he disagrees with BLM?

Could be that they are totally on board with striving for equality but don't think a gesture before a football match is the way to achieve it. Your argument is a bit like saying that anyone that was not out and seen clapping for the NHS is completely opposed to them.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 19, 2020

drew said:
Could be that they are totally on board with striving for equality but don't think a gesture before a football match is the way to achieve it. Your argument is a bit like saying that anyone that was out and seen clapping for the NHS is completely opposed to them.

I presume you missed 'not' before 'out' in your last sentence.

I think that if you are thinking about someone who went along with the NHS clappers for a bit, then became the first on the street to not, while telling people that 'all workers matter' and that it's time to move on, then your take on my argument would be correct.

I apologise if I have given the impression that I think everyone who thinks taking the knee should stop are racists. That's clearly absurd and some good points have been made (e.g. by [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]).

However I am very certain that all racists want the knee taking to stop. Das Reich will doubtless be along in a minute.

Icy Gull · Sep 19, 2020

I don’t think anyone should be obliged to take the knee. You can support the cause without doing it imo. Formula 1 seem to manage it

Deleted member 2719 · Sep 19, 2020

LamieRobertson said:
I toyed with it last night but thought it would end up in the bear pit and don’t normally go there

I'm not sure I believe that. :hilton:

drew · Sep 19, 2020

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I presume you missed 'not' before 'out' in your last sentence.

I think that if you are thinking about someone who went along with the NHS clappers for a bit, then became the first on the street to not, while telling people that 'all workers matter' and that it's time to move on, then your take on my argument would be correct.

I apologise if I have given the impression that I think everyone who thinks taking the knee should stop are racists. That's clearly absurd and some good points have been made (e.g. by [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]).

However I am very certain that all racists want the knee taking to stop. Das Reich will doubtless be along in a minute.

Thanks, corrected for you.

Not sure that is what came across when you stated 'What message is a player (or manager) wishing to give by not taking the knee if not to signal that he disagrees with BLM?'. Based on that, you are suggesting that Warburton doesn't agree with BLM or their aims. He might well not agree but that isn't what he has said and you can't know what he is thinking. It would appear you're just trying to shame people in to toeing the line!

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