Palacefinder General
Well-known member
- Apr 5, 2019
- 2,594
Lovely Hu
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[Albion] Simon Rusk interview - The Guardian
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Lovely Hu
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Sort of, but we sold Tommy and Cook before we gave either of them a chance in the Championship, bought in the likes of Upson instead. We've hardly set the philosophical ideology that we value bringing our own youth players through have we at the club.
Why didn't Chris give them a go? Because he had a squad as it was not getting enough game time. I do partly agree with you, that perhaps it was worth a risk and a go, but got to say of the minutes I did see of some of them, including Connolly in the league cup, it wasn't anything where I thought they were ready for the Premier League. Then again, what do I know!? *
*echoed in post #45 to be fair to [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION]
In PL matches, Foden tends to play cameos when the points are as good as in the bag. Which is very doable when the other 10 players are some of the best on the planet.
AZ Gull
@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
You'd be surprised then.
In 2017-18, 15 different Premier League clubs gave a total of 40 (yes, 40) self-developed young players* at least some playing time in the Premier League. We,of course, were one of 5 clubs that didn't give a single minute to a single such player (and one of the other clubs, Huddersfield, no longer has an academy).
*Let me be clear - these are players who developed through that club's scholar system and were still young enough to qualify as U-21 players in 2017-18.
Now, of course, many of these will not ultimately make the grade; perhaps their Premier League career will consist of just a few minutes. But at least they have been given a chance, and there is encouragement for every single other youngster in that club's academy that there is a pathway.
I'll update this data for the 2018-19 season when the PL Handbook gets published later in the summer. The one thing I know for certain - Albion (again) didn't give a single home-developed youngster a minute.
- Jun 27, 2012
- 13,874
When [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] has to resort to using Dunk and March as evidence of Hughton's commitment to youth development, it underlines just how few opportunities CH gave the kids.
Dunk had made 75 - that's 75 - league appearances before Hughton was appointed. March had made 30 league appearances (and it would have been more, but he missed the first 18 matches of the 2014-15 season with a stress fracture of the back).
Come on [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION], you're better than this.
Hughton has developed them into established premier league players, better players and deserves credit for that. And has worked with them for years . No more than that. But some were arguing otherwise.
Outside of that , it goes without saying that of course no other players have had first team league chances and/or only limited cup appearances. Agreed. It’s hard to evaluate whether other managers might have played their hand differently. Rusk gives no hint in that interview (of course you could say - he would say that wouldn’t he) that Hughton missed opportunities.
However he leaves behind a very promising crop of young players - let’s see if any make it ( Connolly , Molumby, Sanders, and of course Walton )
Also My view on Potter is that his likelihood to bring through u23s is overstated. It happened at Swansea through necessity rather than choice ...but you can’t argue that Daniel James didn’t benefit. But I’d bet on him being more cautious here than some are hoping/expecting.
symyjym
Banned
Nothing to do with me feeling the need to be right or wrong, you accused me of completely sidetracking your original comment. Had you just said, 'yes they both developed under Hughton', I'd have nothing to add.
I've got no interest in the late substitution or why you think it's relevant really, maybe he just forgot to do it earlier, who knows.
I didn't accuse you of side tracking, you did side track
Saying they developed under Hughton stating the obvious. Were they discovered by Hughton in the dark depths of the U23s? No they weren't.I have read on here that you do football training with the youth. I cannot remember who with, but someone with your experience, whatever the level, may have had an objective view of bothering to give a player a 15 second run out to a player, knowing that he would probably not have the time to touch the ball. There is some psychology and games behind it and being a football person you may have had an answer.
If you don't know that would make two of us and the question remains.
True, but worth noting that Gomez himself was barely any older.
GT49er
Well-known member
Elphick and Cook were not that long ago; Fenelon and Forster-Caskey were even more recent, and all got far more of a chance than any of our current U23s. At a lower level, yes, that is true; but back then, we didn't have one of the top U23 teams in the country - we do now.
symyjym
Banned
We have got rid of 7 U23s so there is room for upgrading the stock.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
You'd expect 15 more established PL teams to be giving a few youngsters more of a break. Their Premier League youth setups have been attracting a lot more cream of the crop than ours, and probably funded as such. And yet still that is under 3 players per each of those 15 clubs that could have been a minute per player.
I too would expect the data for 18-19 to be the same, as it would be likely for 3 or 4 other teams. Bit of patience needed I think. Our current crop might simply not be good enough. I guess we will find out soon enough whether it was the manager, or the talent.
If it’s available, I’d like to know the minutes they played in PL matches as a proportion of the whole.
Also, I think ‘self developed young players’ includes near certs poached from other clubs across the planet. A famous example, Fabregas. I don’t think the Albion dine at that table.
Hu_Camus
New member
- Jan 27, 2019
- 502
So have you and the boys of the NSC Geheime Staatspolizei any opinion about the big Slovakian striker from a mid-table French team, spotted at Lancing?
Think he'll sign?....what's the fee, if he does?
Is he a forward, or a replacement for one of the centre-backs?
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Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I didn't accuse you of side tracking, you did side track
I have read on here that you do football training with the youth. I cannot remember who with, but someone with your experience, whatever the level, may have had an objective view of bothering to give a player a 15 second run out to a player, knowing that he would probably not have the time to touch the ball. There is some psychology and games behind it and being a football person you may have had an answer.
If you don't know that would make two of us and the question remains.
Well, that should never happen in a grass roots youth football match, and certainly not at the level I manage at because if I ask a player to be there as a sub, then they'll get a decent bit of game time regardless.
Professional football is not something I can relate to in that respect, so I have no idea why to be honest. All I can echo is that it does seem odd.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
So that is 4 players in 8 years or so?
Good post.
I’m not hoping/expecting on that one. I trust GP and the club to do whatever’s necessary to keep us in the PL, and don’t care if initially it includes homegrown youth or not.
GT49er
Well-known member
Yes - or to put it another way, 224 appearances..........................
AZ Gull
@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
The hole in this argument is that a number of Premier League clubs don't even have Category One academies (Bournemouth, Burnley, Crystal Palace and Watford). Swansea City achieved Category One status two years after Albion did.
Our U-23 side achieved promotion from PL2 Division Two in 2017-18 (ahead of sides such as Southampton and Newcastle). This season they finished 3rd in Division One and were still in with a shout of the title with two matches to play. If the side were consistently near the bottom of PL2 Division Two then I might agree that our players were inferior to the youngsters at other PL clubs, but the evidence of the last two seasons strongly suggests we have decent players in the academy.
We will, and I'm really looking forward to the answer.....
Whitechapel
Famous Last Words
Genuinely curious as to how someone comes on in the 90th minute and looks overwhelmed?
Whitechapel
Famous Last Words
Is there not a whole host of middle ground between ‘playing them regardless’ and giving them less than 2% of the minutes available. It’s understandable that we didn’t want to risk throwing young players in to league games, however I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect them to get more of a chance in the cup. Let’s be honest, we treated it as a distraction until a route to the semis dropped in to our lap. I don’t think I’m being too extreme to think the likes of Molumby, Sanders, Ostigard & Sanchez deserves some minutes, or that Gyokeres deserved to start more than one game.