[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

vegster · Feb 20, 2019

beorhthelm said:
there's something in common between them... and Brown, Corbyn.
people give the media too much credit, ignoring they reflect the public as much as sell them something. we can believe there is a conspiracy, or accept maybe the electorate didnt like their manifestos?

Don't forget that we get the best parliament that money can buy, the huge amounts of cash donated to the Tory party by " Free Thinking " business men swamps what most other parties receive and so its not only the " Free Thinking " offshore newspaper owners on their side, they have a huge budget to buy their cause airtime.

And why do these generous people give their cash away so freely to the Tory Party ? After all, these successful business people surely invest wisely in their businesses and giving away huge amounts of hard earned profits must be worth something more than just some kind of altruism ? Could it be to buy the tax breaks and the " light touch " on employment laws and NI and business tax ?

Deleted member 22389 · Feb 20, 2019

Kalimantan Gull said:
I'll say one thing for this 11, they all seem completely normal, exactly the kind of people I'd want representing me in parliament and different to most of the pompous weirdos we see in there

True, but they don't want to respect the result of the referendum, they want to overturn it, so I'm out on this lot I'm afraid.

Weststander · Feb 20, 2019

vegster said:
Don't forget that we get the best parliament that money can buy, the huge amounts of cash donated to the Tory party by " Free Thinking " business men swamps what most other parties receive and so its not only the " Free Thinking " offshore newspaper owners on their side, they have a huge budget to buy their cause airtime.

And why do these generous people give their cash away so freely to the Tory Party ? After all, these successful business people surely invest wisely in their businesses and giving away huge amounts of hard earned profits must be worth something more than just some kind of altruism ? Could it be to buy the tax breaks and the " light touch " on employment laws and NI and business tax ?

Because they believe in modest corporate taxes and governments favouring enterprise.

Hardly a secret.

The free thinking UK electorate don’t want a hard left government. Let’s not patronise them because the minority who do, don’t get want they want.

Bold Seagull · Feb 20, 2019

Weststander said:
Because they believe in modest corporate taxes and governments favouring enterprise.

Hardly a secret.

The free thinking UK electorate don’t want a hard left government. Let’s not patronise them because the minority who do, don’t get want they want.

No one is proposing one. :shrug:

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 20, 2019

bashlsdir said:
True, but they don't want to respect the result of the referendum, they want to overturn it, so I'm out on this lot I'm afraid.

No, they don't want to overturn it themselves, they want to ask us the people if we want to overturn it. I think that's a sizeable distinction.

neilbard · Feb 20, 2019

Kalimantan Gull said:
No, they don't want to overturn it themselves, they want to ask us the people if we want to overturn it. I think that's a sizeable distinction.

It's a cunning plan Baldrick, get remainers to completely **** it up then ask the demoralised panic stricken electorate what they think, genius.

vegster · Feb 20, 2019

Weststander said:
Because they believe in modest corporate taxes and governments favouring enterprise.

Hardly a secret.

The free thinking UK electorate don’t want a hard left government. Let’s not patronise them because the minority who do, don’t get want they want.

Sounds very plausible when phrased like that, however a succession of Tory governments have been incredibly generous to business to the extent that the UK is a fantastic place to trade thanks to a de-unionised low wage population and generous tax breaks with which to siphon the profits out of the country. It's pretty obvious that these tax breaks have cost the majority of the population an underfunded NHS, Education and Social Care and an effective wage cut across all public employees … oh, except themselves !

Weststander · Feb 20, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
No one is proposing one.

I’ve mentioned before that IMO a JC/McDonnell government would, with their feet in the door, push policies not mentioned in their gentle (softly spoken by McDonnell), ‘Norwegian’ manifesto. Some NSC Labour supporters agreed about not trusting JC. Overriding this, the fiscal sums do not add up, taxing only the very wealthy will not pay for the promises. Away from finances, the support for then failure to condemn the Venezualan regime is dogmatic and poor.

vegster · Feb 20, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
No one is proposing one.

Its a strange world where a man who helps out in a homeless shelter at Christmas and spends his spare time at his allotment is seen as the Antichrist that will bring down Western civilisation if allowed to re-nationalise the railways !

Weststander · Feb 20, 2019

vegster said:
Sounds very plausible when phrased like that, however a succession of Tory governments have been incredibly generous to business to the extent that the UK is a fantastic place to trade thanks to a de-unionised low wage population and generous tax breaks with which to siphon the profits out of the country. It's pretty obvious that these tax breaks have cost the majority of the population an underfunded NHS, Education and Social Care and an effective wage cut across all public employees … oh, except themselves !

Did the alleged tax breaks disappear in 1997 and reappear in 2010?

Ernest · Feb 20, 2019

Interesting that a few weeks back all 3 ex Tories voted they had confidence in the Tory government but now they slate it. Anyone would think that’s a tad hypocritical

neilbard · Feb 20, 2019

Ernest said:
Interesting that a few weeks back all 3 ex Tories voted they had confidence in the Tory government but now they slate it. Anyone would think that’s a tad hypocritical

Get off yer soap box, Labour aren't exactly pulling up trees... :shrug:

vegster · Feb 20, 2019

Weststander said:
I’ve mentioned before that IMO a JC/McDonnell government would, with their feet in the door, push policies not mentioned in their gentle (softly spoken by McDonnell), ‘Norwegian’ manifesto. Some NSC Labour supporters agreed about not trusting JC. Overriding this, the fiscal sums do not add up, taxing only the very wealthy will not pay for the promises. Away from finances, the support for then failure to condemn the Venezualan regime is dogmatic and poor.

I paid about £2.5 k in Tax and NI last year on my wages, I'd happily pay more from a higher wage but my ultimate employers in the Channel Islands need their £1.5Bn in the bank more than I need a 2% biennial pay rise.

vegster · Feb 20, 2019

Weststander said:
Did the alleged tax breaks disappear in 1997 and reappear in 2010?

Good point, the Blair Tory government was moderately acceptable to business so was not strangled at birth.

Two Professors · Feb 20, 2019

Interesting times.Cable has destroyed the Limp Dems by hitching his wagon to the anti-Democratic peoples vote,Corbyn has killed off Labour with his Islam-r-Us version,May has killed off the Tory lite mob.The Independents will all be de-selected,leaving the only politicians left with any integrity as Farage and the ERG.

Rodney Thomas · Feb 20, 2019

Weststander said:
I’ve mentioned before that IMO a JC/McDonnell government would, with their feet in the door, push policies not mentioned in their gentle (softly spoken by McDonnell), ‘Norwegian’ manifesto. Some NSC Labour supporters agreed about not trusting JC. Overriding this, the fiscal sums do not add up, taxing only the very wealthy will not pay for the promises. Away from finances, the support for then failure to condemn the Venezualan regime is dogmatic and poor.

But Ed Miliband certainly wasn't hard left and look how(the majority of the press treated him. To suggest that newspapers have no bias and no effect on voting populations simply because currently no-one wants the "hard left" labour party right now is ridiculous!

Weststander · Feb 20, 2019

vegster said:
Its a strange world where a man who helps out in a homeless shelter at Christmas and spends his spare time at his allotment is seen as the Antichrist that will bring down Western civilisation if allowed to re-nationalise the railways !

It’s not a Corbyn issue. Behind him are the likes of McDonnell, some aggressive union leaders, and a whole new generation of hard left folk who despise capitalism, USA, NATO, plus a few with anti semitic views based on centuries old sterotyping about the Jewish conspiracy.

It boils down to solutions to our country’s problems. Personally I’d trust a coalition that sought to deal with them, whilst ensuring business prospered and the successful weren’t penalised with spite taxes. We seem to be going round in circles, but in the Scandinavian models pushed forward, almost everyone at every income level gives up half of their income in taxes. It’s an absolute lie, to win votes, that taxing the very wealthy more can change the UK.

Leekbrookgull · Feb 20, 2019

Ah,Ed Miliband Labour MP for Doncaster South (?) yet i believe he lives in Primrose Hill ? Sounds about right for a politician.

vegster · Feb 20, 2019

Getting back to the point of the thread, I really can't see much mileage in this new independent group, they have no real coherent policies, no political infrastructure or support network and they are highly unlikely to get enough funding from " donors ". Add to that they only have until the next GE to remain in the House as most will be facing a replacement Labour or Tory candidate in their own seats who will beat them, one or two might survive, just, but they will be a fringe rabble rather than an effective mainstream group.

Weststander · Feb 20, 2019

Rodney Thomas said:
But Ed Miliband certainly wasn't hard left and look how(the majority of the press treated him. To suggest that newspapers have no bias and no effect on voting populations simply because currently no-one wants the "hard left" labour party right now is ridicul

Only an idiot would claim the newspapers aren’t biased. The Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun and Express are Tory, Mirror and Guardian Labour, The Times changes.

Newspaper sales are a fraction of what they were, there’s an army of left and right wing bloggers etc pushing agendas.

There’s never been so much info out there, but within it lies too.

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[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

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strong and stable with me, or...

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Hedging up

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Stupid IDIOT

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