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General Election 2017



S

Seagull kimchi

New member
Oct 8, 2010
4,007
Korea and India
Buzzer said:
Charging UK students fees for a first degree is just wrong IMHO. I just don't like the idea that we saddle young people with tens of thousands of pounds of debt right at the beginning of their adult lives. I understand that they will only pay for it if and when they earn enough but in which case make it free and they will pay for it anyway through their taxes later on in life. Yes, I understand that not everyone goes to uni who pays taxes but this is also true of people who don't use NHS services much or ever claim benefits or use museums or ever need the Fire Service or go to the opera or a hundred other things that we pay for communaly.

Subjects that don't have high financial benefit do contribute in other ways. It enriches our culture. What doesn't are all the worthless, silly degrees invented over the last few years to cater for people who really shouldn't have gone to university. I have yet to hear a decent argument for why the old vocational institutes and polytechnics were so bad and why we needed to get so many young people into universities.
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I agree absolutely, give anyone with an academic leaning free access to higher education. This can only inspire talented people from any walk of life to better their prospects. The middle class kids and up are going to walk into university anyway fees or not.(Unless they want to rebel against their parents and become SJW's!)

I went to a Polytechnic in Wales because my A levels results were a bit shit, in my graduation year T Blair decided to upgrade all Polys to Uni status - so miraculously I came away with a University degree. Luckiest break in my entire life - I've been in charge of English departments across several government elementary schools in Korea for 12 years now, making good money and looking to retire to India on my 50th birthday - with just a poly degree none of this would have been possible.

You're right in saying vocational education is good for those who want to do proper hands on work and need a bit of instruction - apprentice positions too.
 




PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
18,704
Hurst Green
Buzzer said:
Charging UK students fees for a first degree is just wrong IMHO. I just don't like the idea that we saddle young people with tens of thousands of pounds of debt right at the beginning of their adult lives. I understand that they will only pay for it if and when they earn enough but in which case make it free and they will pay for it anyway through their taxes later on in life. Yes, I understand that not everyone goes to uni who pays taxes but this is also true of people who don't use NHS services much or ever claim benefits or use museums or ever need the Fire Service or go to the opera or a hundred other things that we pay for communally.

Subjects that don't have high financial benefit do contribute in other ways. It enriches our culture. What doesn't are all the worthless, silly degrees invented over the last few years to cater for people who really shouldn't have gone to university. I have yet to hear a decent argument for why the old vocational institutes and polytechnics were so bad and why we needed to get so many young people into universities.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately your first argument is so very countered by the last. Get rid of pointless rubbish and allow degrees to mean something again. A disservice has been done to many by the re-naming of educational institutes. This has a knock affect where before students travelled daily to their local college now expect to live away on campus or student digs thus costing them and us (parents) huge amounts of money completely unnecessarily. False hope is given to these students, being told that "degree" status jobs will be available for them with higher salaries. Also a huge amount of these dreamt up degrees are supposedly fulltime many are barely one day a week.

All it ever did was to remove young adults from unemployment figures.
 


Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
PILTDOWN MAN said:
Unfortunately your first argument is so very countered by the last. Get rid of pointless rubbish and allow degrees to mean something again. A disservice has been done to many by the re-naming of educational institutes. This has a knock affect where before students travelled daily to their local college now expect to live away on campus or student digs thus costing them and us (parents) huge amounts of money completely unnecessarily. False hope is given to these students, being told that "degree" status jobs will be available for them with higher salaries. Also a huge amount of these dreamt up degrees are supposedly fulltime many are barely one day a week.

All it ever did was to remove young adults from unemployment figures.
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Apologies but I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm with you completely about the pointless renaming of colleges and dumbing down with false hopes of a job but I think this could be stopped and still remove the need for tuition fees. I suppose I'm arguing for a return to the way higher education existed up until the 90s.
 


PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
18,704
Hurst Green
Buzzer said:
Apologies but I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm with you completely about the pointless renaming of colleges and dumbing down with false hopes of a job but I think this could be stopped and still remove the need for tuition fees. I suppose I'm arguing for a return to the way higher education existed up until the 90s.
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Exactly remove the crap and I'd be happy to pay via my taxes to educate the "proper" courses, I include the classic degrees in this. Educational enrichment should be available to all but a complete rethink is needed.
 






Chicken Run

Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
18,448
Valley of Hangleton
Labour party (draft) manifesto pledges to end tuition fees and nationalise railways

The Merry Prankster said:
You rather missed the point of my suggestion that, if you're really interested, you do your own research. If all you want is for your prejudices to be confirmed then, by all means, rely on the misrepresentation of others.
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I think your over complicating things here son, many members of Momentum are spineless aggressive scum bag my way or the highway types, fact! I fear it's you who has definitely missed the point!
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,653
Fiveways
Conservative Party manifesto

-- will it ever appear?
-- if it does, will it contain anything?
-- if it contains anything, will any of it have anything remotely related to policies?
 






The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,577
Shoreham Beach
Chicken Run said:
I think your over complicating things here son, many members of Momentum are spineless aggressive scum bag my way or the highway types, fact! I fear it's you who has definitely missed the point!
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There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation. —Herbert Spencer

.....and thanks for the patronisation, always a winning tool.
 




S

Sussex Nomad

Well-known member
Aug 26, 2010
18,185
EP
Who actually reads a manifesto from front to back, and even if done, who actually digests it? Whoever you vote for they will say you voted for their manifesto, even if that involves fox hunting, etc., etc. They will say that you have given them the green light. You may only agree with 60% of their policies, but you have voted for the other 40% too, like it or not.
 








Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
Blue passports
Moaning about grammar schools - more of the same
Disability benefits - less of the same
Mark Strong to head Brexit negotiating team
Stables, lots of stables for when fox hunting ban lifted
Renewed contracts for Agents Corbyn and McDonnell

Job done.
 




R

Raleigh Chopper

New member
Sep 1, 2011
12,054
Plymouth
Sussex Nomad said:
Who actually reads a manifesto from front to back, and even if done, who actually digests it? Whoever you vote for they will say you voted for their manifesto, even if that involves fox hunting, etc., etc. They will say that you have given them the green light. You may only agree with 60% of their policies, but you have voted for the other 40% too, like it or not.
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This is true, but don't forget that they often make 'difficult decisions' that were not in the manifesto in the first place.
 










beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
Plooks said:
It is morally wrong to charge for education.
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why then do we stop at undergraduate level? why is there no clamour for Masters or PhD courses to be free?
 




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