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Perpetual motion?



Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,985
Goldstone
splitting the water molecule and reforming it both require energy
But the molecule would have the same amount of potential energy as the atoms it splits into, so splitting it does not lose energy. The splitting process will take energy and cause heat etc, but that's a separate point.
 


rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
Good effort but when Triggger gets his teeth into something the only intention is a perpetual pedantic argument.

in this instance [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] is not being pedantic, he is tenaciously explaining repeatedly demonstrable observations,
the laws of physics, and other people don't get it. simples
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,985
Goldstone
in this instance [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] is not being pedantic, he is tenaciously explaining repeatedly demonstrable observations,
the laws of physics, and other people don't get it. simples
Thank you. Not sure the first bit needed to be bold though :D
 


rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
No it has nothing to do with the machine, it's about the definition of gravity which is a force that creates potential energy. I casually called it energy but Triggar, being into pedantics, took issue with the use of the word and got his teeth stuck in.

gravity doesn't CREATE potential energy. some energy HAS to be used to move whatever matter(stuff with mass)
AGAINST the local gravitational force; be it, (as [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] rightly points out); water up a dam in the guise of a clouds forming,
or that FU(KIN BALL! :shootself:shootself:shootself
 






rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
He felt I tried to make an argument about something he hadn't said. I just responded to one of his posts, perhaps without full regard to the context in which it was made, and it escalated from there.

I'm in Ho.. er, erm, Horsham. Yes, Horsham, that's it.

soz for my stupidity, but do you know how to get from "strawmanned" to that?

and that's a typo isn't it? i'm wandering around hove now but all i can see is this pulsating red light,
must be aliens, dropping off the proper perpetual motion machine :banana::banana::banana:
 


rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
I'm now going to spend 10 hours researching whether it's exactly 50/50, or slightly more one than the other :glare:

well they appear to be; let me choose my words carefully here; vaguely the same size disc in the sky, cos one is 400 times bigger and 400 times further away.
when the sun and the moon align on the same side we get our neap tides (the highest) ithangu :bowdown:
 
Last edited:


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,985
Goldstone
well they appear to be; let me choose my words carefully here; vaguely the same size disc in the sky, cos one is 400 times bigger and 400 times further away.
when the sun and the moon align on the same side we get our neap tides (the highest) ithangu :bowdown:
Quick google tells me:
"Sun's Tidal Effect. Even though the Sun is 391 times as far away from the Earth as the Moon, its force on the Earth is about 175 times as large. Yet its tidal effect is smaller than that of the Moon because tides are caused by the difference in gravity field across the Earth."

If that's too complicated for you, try this video, created by a 2 year old:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd4BIt0yZC0
 




rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
This can't work, energy is lost as sound, heat from rolling friction in the ball, the track, and the other moving parts, and via viscous dissipation of the air that has to move out of the way of the ball. That energy comes from the kinetic energy in the ball.

A grandfather clock maintains its motion for months without being touched, that alone does not demonstrate perpetual motion. The moon has been rotating around the earth for millions of years, why don't people find that amazing as it's far closer to a perpetual motion machine than this. Even the moon loses some energy via to tidal forces and is not truly perpetual.

indeed, the gravitational pull of the earth and moon slows the spin of both
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,985
Goldstone
Johnny Cantor: "Anthony, amazing performance today. Three goals and you look as fresh as a daisy. Where do you get so much energy?"
Anthony Knockaert: "Gravity".
 








rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
But the molecule would have the same amount of potential energy as the atoms it splits into, so splitting it does not lose energy. The splitting process will take energy and cause heat etc, but that's a separate point.

correct me where i'm wrong; but eh? molecules have more PE, usually, cos atoms are bonded together to form molecules by energy.
AIUI, all matter is trying to turn into iron cos it's the most electrically efficient structure (outside SUPER MASSIVE black holes)
 


rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
Quick google tells me:
"Sun's Tidal Effect. Even though the Sun is 391 times as far away from the Earth as the Moon, its force on the Earth is about 175 times as large. Yet its tidal effect is smaller than that of the Moon because tides are caused by the difference in gravity field across the Earth."

If that's too complicated for you, try this video, created by a 2 year old:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd4BIt0yZC0

you can FU(K RIGHT OFF, you didn't know anything at all about neap tides, (so i've won this one)
 




rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,898
Johnny Cantor: "Anthony, amazing performance today. Three goals and you look as fresh as a daisy. Where do you get so much energy?"
Anthony Knockaert: "Gravity".

stop iiiiit. that would only provide POTENTIAL ENERGY. you still have to put some effort in
 















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