[Albion] Chris Hughton statement

Hamilton · May 22, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
There is truth to it.

By the end of 13/14, from the previously successful play off challenges we lost:
Ulloa
Buckley
Barnes
Bridcutt
Lopez
Orlandi
Upson
Lingard
Ward
amoung others.

This culminated in a disastrous period of using loans that basically reaped it's rewards in the 2014/15 season where we had 10 or so loans that frankly took the piss.

The recruitment was changed, Burke went, it was restructured. How much Hughton played a part in this, who knows, but we started with solid signings 15/16, and 3 loans that included Sidwell, Wilson and Ridgewell. I don't think you can say what he inherited wasn't broken - it really was, the loan strategy nearly destroyed any remaining team spirit or belief at the club.

We were going down without Hughton steadying the ship. There really is no rewriting that. Then to take that team, of shattered belief and confidence, and lift them to within GD of promotion, I don't think you can reduce that transformation. Then to miss out with the worse luck you can imagine, both at Boro and in the PlayOffs, we went again and were even stronger.

The team spirit Hughton achieved perhaps up to this year was incredible. Got to say, think you're wrong on this one.

OK. I'll stand down on this one, but Hughton's starting line-up for his first game...

Stockdale
Calderon
Greer
Dunk
Chicksen
Baldock
Ince
March
Teixeira
Mackail-Smith
Holla

Not a disastrous set of players.

TSB · May 22, 2019

Mellotron said:
We survived mostly thanks to Cardiff being shitter than us. It was hardly The Great Escape a la Russell Slade.

Lol. Constantly trotted-out bollocks.
Cardiff got MORE points than either Swansea or Stoke, the season before.
So, in fact, the bar to survive this year was actually higher. And we still did it comfortably, having not once been in the relegation zone.

Staying up will always involve other clubs being shitter than us.
Last year, Huddersfield were twenty points shitter.

Thunder Bolt · May 22, 2019

Wellesley said:
I get your point, but after being in the bottom two tiers, it's a huge advantage entering at the 4th round stage and having spent a fair few million on players. Totally different to the task faced by previous managers. We were very lucky with the draw too.

Third round.

father_and_son · May 22, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
There is truth to it.

By the end of 13/14, from the previously successful play off challenges we lost:
Ulloa
Buckley
Barnes
Bridcutt
Lopez
Orlandi
Upson
Lingard
Ward
amoung others.

This culminated in a disastrous period of using loans that basically reaped it's rewards in the 2014/15 season where we had 10 or so loans that frankly took the piss.

The recruitment was changed, Burke went, it was restructured. How much Hughton played a part in this, who knows, but we started with solid signings 15/16, and 3 loans that included Sidwell, Wilson and Ridgewell. I don't think you can say what he inherited wasn't broken - it really was, the loan strategy nearly destroyed any remaining team spirit or belief at the club.

We were going down without Hughton steadying the ship. There really is no rewriting that. Then to take that team, of shattered belief and confidence, and lift them to within GD of promotion, I don't think you can reduce that transformation. Then to miss out with the worse luck you can imagine, both at Boro and in the PlayOffs, we went again and were even stronger.

The team spirit Hughton achieved perhaps up to this year was incredible. Got to say, think you're wrong on this one.

All valid points... but I think the suggestion generally is any half-decent manager could have recovered the position Chris found us in. The truth of this we'll never know, but certainly on other threads, the suggestion is the fact that we were in so much trouble was so tied to how bad Hyypia was and that survival after he left wasn't such an amazing feat after all - as mentioned, Nathan did enough to stop the rot with just a couple of games as caretaker.

Getting back into the playoffs and promotion are a different issue but relegation was probably going to be avoided whoever took over.

Thunder Bolt · May 22, 2019

Hamilton said:
OK. I'll stand down on this one, but Hughton's starting line-up for his first game...

Stockdale
Calderon
Greer
Dunk
Chicksen
Baldock
Ince
March
Teixeira
Mackail-Smith
Holla

Not a disastrous set of players.

His first game was an FA cup game.

Goldstone1976 · May 22, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Or how about 'I knew we hadn't achieved the football the board wanted, but we had survived, and I thought I had the confidence of the board to take us forward next season'.

I don't think our drop in form was solely down to Chris. Some players under-performed, a lot of refereeing decisions went against us, and some opposition strikers hit form against us. Chris may have felt that way, and felt that despite not doing as well as the board would have liked, he'd still be the right man to help us progress.

Yep, your fourth option is possible.

However, Tony and Barber are on public record multiple times as saying that the target was PL survival, with hopefully a decent cup run. I do not recall them either of them having ever said, prior to Hughton's dismissal, anything at all about the style of football being an important consideration. It's possible that they documented that as a key component of Chris' objectives - but, if so, why not publish that too?

I think it's more likely that it was always an aspiration to play attractive football, but I see no evidence that that aspiration was ever crystallised as a "target".

Unlike with Potter - where already we are starting to see statements about how we play, not just the league table.

Uncle Spielberg · May 22, 2019

A lot of our fans seem to have the same mentality as Chris in that 17th is really the best a small club like bhafc can possibly hope to achieve. Anything above is a massive bonus. I think Bloom has the bar higher. I am with Bloom

Wellesley · May 22, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
Third round.

Ah yes, I've always had problems with rounds.

Cowfold Seagull · May 22, 2019

Mellotron said:
Blimey, you were obviously in a lot more board meetings than any of us, to know that was the ONLY target set this season. Please, tell us more.

lol hardly, though l wish l was.

Cowfold Seagull · May 22, 2019

TSB said:
Classy guy.
Will be hugely missed by all decent supporters.

Amen to that.

Bold Seagull · May 22, 2019

Hamilton said:
OK. I'll stand down on this one, but Hughton's starting line-up for his first game...

Stockdale
Calderon
Greer
Dunk
Chicksen
Baldock
Ince
March
Teixeira
Mackail-Smith
Holla

Not a disastrous set of players.

We were: P24 W4 D11 L9 PTS23 joint 22nd.

Our mentality was transformed. The way the club recruited completed changed. The type of player we recruited changed to the infamous 'no dickheads policy' that didn't seem to exist when some of these idiot loans turned up for a pay check.

Harry Wilson's tackle · May 22, 2019

CH's contract has been paid up in full. This allows TB the absolute freedom to do whatver he sees is in the best interest of the club without any need for handwringing.

CH is also free to capitalise on the high regard in which he is held and move into another job if he so wishes.

He is the same age as me. He has been paid well, and there is no way I will be able to match his level of income in the next year. And yet I am considering retiring. So if CH is hungry for more football success he can pick and chose his next move. I doubt that his reputation and prospects have been remotely harmed by this 'grossly unfair dismissal' (as a proportion of people on NSC and out in the wider world appear to see it).

Meanwhile BHA move on, looking that bit more serious and focused, a bit less 'little ole' and, in any case, we were never in the business of signing up new floating supporters or incoming from other clubs - it isn't a sodding beauty contest. FFS.

Hamilton · May 22, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
His first game was an FA cup game.

Yes, it was.

?

Thunder Bolt · May 22, 2019

Wellesley said:
Ah yes, I've always had problems with rounds.

Mines a half of cider.

Nixonator · May 22, 2019

Publius Ovidius said:
Or for ever?

Can anyone seriously think we will ever be anything but a bottom 6-8 club? We haven’t the money to compete with the big boys and therefore we can only look to be a Burnley or Bournemouth.

The younger generation of fans natually want more, and who knows for sure what can be accomplished in their future years?

Tony is also a very ambitious man, and has an absolute fortune behind him (far more than speculated).

I don't see anything wrong with them setting sights on PL stability with enjoyable football.

Triggaaar · May 22, 2019

Goldstone1976 said:
Yep, your fourth option is possible.

Thanks

You don't seem to be handing out star stickers, but I've got plenty left over for the kids, so I'm taking one of theirs. I'll take a blue one, as I don't think I've earned a gold.

However

Tony and Barber are on public record multiple times as saying that the target was PL survival, with hopefully a decent cup run. I do not recall them either of them having ever said, prior to Hughton's dismissal, anything at all about the style of football being an important consideration. It's possible that they documented that as a key component of Chris' objectives - but, if so, why not publish that too?

Well obviously I'm guessing, but PL survival was the number one priority, and to be met at all costs. Publishing the other wishes they had (developing young players, playing a certain style, etc) could just add to the pressure the team is under when media outlets start reading them back to you. We already had 'Chris out' posts here a couple of months ago, and they'd have had more ammunition had their been extra requirements, and that extra pressure could have affected then number one priority of survival.

Your point 2 (more targets for me than they told me) is possible. If Chris really knew he'd get the chop if we didn't both survive and play a certain way, there'd have been no point in him grinding out results at the end - he might as well have gone for it, shit or bust. That would have risked survival, so it's quite possible that by the end the board were happy for him to set us up conservatively, to get us over the line, knowing that they'd sack him once he'd done it. And I don't have a problem with that, we're not a charity.

I think it's more likely that it was always an aspiration to play attractive football, but I see no evidence that that aspiration was ever crystallised as a "target".

I can't imagine that the club got this far regarding senior recruitment, and the type of players they've bought, and simply forgotten to mention to Chris was they wanted us to play attractive football. Of course they did. Which is possibly why we say us change from 4411 to 433, and at least have a go at the opposition. Sure they may not have said to Chris 'you're sacked if you don't', but he'd have know that's what the club wanted, and he wasn't able to provide it.

Unlike with Potter - where already we are starting to see statements about how we play, not just the league table.

That's probably because something needs to be said, having sacked Chris after he appeared to do what was required of him.

Hamilton · May 22, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
We were: P24 W4 D11 L9 PTS23 joint 22nd.

Our mentality was transformed. The way the club recruited completed changed. The type of player we recruited changed to the infamous 'no dickheads policy' that didn't seem to exist when some of these idiot loans turned up for a pay check.

I agree that Hughton turned the team around, but I also contest that had he been in charge at the start of the season, then we would not have flirted with relegation, but instead finished mid to upper-table. It would just have been seen as a transition from the relatively successful Poyet and Garcia years. We'd have all been thinking that the wheels were on the bus and we had a great management team.

It's Hyypia's total inability as a manager that allows for the narrative 'transformed a relegation bound team'.

But, hey I'll stand down. I'm alone on this one.

El Presidente · May 22, 2019

Goldstone1976 said:
Yes, exactly.

Which is the most likely example of my option 2.

From Tony's perspective - it's not unreasonable.

From Chris', it might have been "Whoa - you never said that at interview and it's not in my contract. That's simply not fair - it means you could sack me at any time - all you have to do is say 'Yeah, but I've lost confidence in you'". The counterargument? "Welcome to football in the PL - that's the nature of the beast, and why you got paid the big bucks. Life's a bitch"

Yup, makes sense.

If TB wants to move the goalposts it's his call. He can turn us into a Primark Chelsea if he wants to change managers whenever he's bored too.

Chris Hughton has two years left on his contract so will be secure.

Uh_huh_him · May 22, 2019

Hamilton said:
Yes, really.

It's inflated in such a way that the word 'helped' gets lost. What people see is 'Chris transformed Brighton'.

We were headed towards relegation, but once Hyypia was replaced I was confident that we would not be relegated. We needed a tactical change at that point, not master surgery.

I think the narrative is inaccurate. Chris should be thanked for his role as part of a wider team and it should be recognised that he has been one part of a highly effective management team. However, management teams change and new skills are required as the world changes. Chris's skills were what we needed, and we thank him. Now we need another aspect to change. I'm sure other roles behind the scenes have also changed as the club has moved into a new world and they have not been able to step up. That's the reality sometimes.

Only member of that management team to get sacked for staying in the Premier league.
I think It's fair dos that he gets the plaudits for getting us there in the first place.

Hamilton · May 22, 2019

Uh_huh_him said:
Only member of that management team to get sacked for staying in the Premier league.
I think It's fair dos that he gets the plaudits for getting us there in the first place.

I have no problem with the promotion plaudits, I'm just contesting the narrative - not Chris's fault - that suggests he inherited a broken club.

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