[News] Leaving Neverland- Michael Jackson documentary

Triggaaar said:

The father was the dentist.

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Worthing exile said:

To me, these accusations would carry far more weight if the accusers clearly stated they were after justice and didn't want any money at all.

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FatSuperman said:

I was very anti-MJ at the time of all of the allegations, but am now not as convinced as I was. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in the thread, but there are a lot of videos kicking about that were filmed during the Bashir interview, as well as recording from the father of the original allegations. It's shocking how diferently the Bashir programme was shown in comparison to what was actually said and filmed. As I suppose you would expect, it was cut to be highly provocative. In the tapes from the conversations with the father, he is asking Michael, as a friend, for money. Eventually he threatens to blackmail him with an abuse story. Which is exactly what he did. There are plenty of videos of the child adamently declaring, for a long time, that MJ never touched him inappropriately. Eventually he changes his story.

Don't get me wrong, Michael Jackson is not right, he was properly weird and in my opinion quite likely he was up to something dodgy. But we do not know that and there is no evidence. The only people ever suggesting things are all chasing money, after previously defending Micael. There were a lot of kids that used to hang out with him (very weird), and nearly all of them defend him.

I think Michael Jackson was very troubled, abused by his father, misled and betrayed by people he trusted and quite possibly a padeophile. I would never have let my children near him. I also think Bashir is a total **** and the people accusing Michael now are possibly abused children, but more likely they are liars trying to get some cash.

Your margin may vary.

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mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:

I've not watched the new documentary yet but I certainly remember my GUT feel at the time of the first Bashir doc.

I'm willing to accept that maybe I am biased towards a brilliant musician but my over riding feeling was:

He was SO open about the fact that he shared his bed with these kids that it actually seemed ludicrous that he was up to something 'weird'. In my mind, if you were up to something DODGY there would be an element of secrecy or at least not openly declaring it. He was doing quite the opposite and then seemed surprised that someone would question it. That to me smacked of someone who had MAJOR issues stemming from his mental childhood but was just suffering with a complete naivity to how his actions might be perceived.

Now, I'm willing to accept that I may well have been COMPLETELY stupid and have fallen for the most ridiculous lie, but I can only go on my gut feeling at the time of watching. Not one part of me then or now thought "he's touching those kids". The fact that, almost immediately, allegations started coming out (led by a VERY dodgy mother) just smacked of people jumping on a chance.

Again, this was my gut feeling. I can accept if I was wrong. I hope I'm not.

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Wilko said:

I, the fact that Jackson has fully admitted that he shared a bed with these young boys is surely enough on its own to merit calling him out on what he is. .

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GT49er said:

his dad took him to the dentists to put him under anaesthetic "

......just quoting.....

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FatSuperman said:

I was very anti-MJ at the time of all of the allegations, but am now not as convinced as I was. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in the thread, but there are a lot of videos kicking about that were filmed during the Bashir interview, as well as recording from the father of the original allegations. It's shocking how diferently the Bashir programme was shown in comparison to what was actually said and filmed. As I suppose you would expect, it was cut to be highly provocative. In the tapes from the conversations with the father, he is asking Michael, as a friend, for money. Eventually he threatens to blackmail him with an abuse story. Which is exactly what he did. There are plenty of videos of the child adamently declaring, for a long time, that MJ never touched him inappropriately. Eventually he changes his story.

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, Michael Jackson is not right, he was properly weird and in my opinion quite likely he was up to something dodgy. But we do not know that and there is no evidence.

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The only people ever suggesting things are all chasing money, after previously defending Micael.

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Triggaaar said:

There is evidence - the people who he raped say that he raped them. That's evidence, and would be more than enough to put someone away.

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mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:

He was SO open about the fact that he shared his bed with these kids that it actually seemed ludicrous that he was up to something 'weird'. In my mind, if you were up to something DODGY there would be an element of secrecy or at least not openly declaring it. He was doing quite the opposite and then seemed surprised that someone would question it.

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mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:

Wow. For the sake of the innocent people accused of rape, I'd hope that wasn't the case.

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Worthing exile said:

To me, these accusations would carry far more weight if the accusers clearly stated they were after justice and didn't want any money at all.

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symyjym said:

Would you claim that you performed oral sex on Jackson to make some money. There are better things to go down in history for, excuse the pun.

They could have quite easily made money writing autobiographical accounts on touring with him as children and their experience at Neverland in the good old days if he was innocent, so money couldn't be a motive. They can't exactly sue Jackson.

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Worthing exile said:

I thought I read somewhere that one of them had written a book about his youth but it had flopped?

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FatSuperman said:

I was very anti-MJ at the time of all of the allegations, but am now not as convinced as I was. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in the thread, but there are a lot of videos kicking about that were filmed during the Bashir interview, as well as recording from the father of the original allegations. It's shocking how diferently the Bashir programme was shown in comparison to what was actually said and filmed. As I suppose you would expect, it was cut to be highly provocative. In the tapes from the conversations with the father, he is asking Michael, as a friend, for money. Eventually he threatens to blackmail him with an abuse story. Which is exactly what he did. There are plenty of videos of the child adamently declaring, for a long time, that MJ never touched him inappropriately. Eventually he changes his story.

Don't get me wrong, Michael Jackson is not right, he was properly weird and in my opinion quite likely he was up to something dodgy. But we do not know that and there is no evidence. The only people ever suggesting things are all chasing money, after previously defending Micael. There were a lot of kids that used to hang out with him (very weird), and nearly all of them defend him.

I think Michael Jackson was very troubled, abused by his father, misled and betrayed by people he trusted and quite possibly a padeophile. I would never have let my children near him. I also think Bashir is a total **** and the people accusing Michael now are possibly abused children, but more likely they are liars trying to get some cash.

Your margin may vary.

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mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:

I'm not sure it is

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Wilko said:

Really? Is it acceptable for a grown man to share a bed with a 7 year old boy he is not related to?

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daveinplzen said:

Kevin Spacey plays a President on TV and loses his job due to being charged with groping. A real President admits he gropes, and is still President. Thats the world we now live in.
Its a difficult subject though. I love MJ's music. Always will. I love R Kellys music, always will. I have to separate the issues. I cant see me not playing their music anymore.
A lot of music brings back happy memories. Im not prepared to forfeit those memories tbh.

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lawros left foot said:

It’s a difficult one, his music is obviously a large part of some people’s lives, and he has got iconic status through that, but, Gary Glitter and Jonathan King are both treated as pariahs musically, for similar offences. Chuck Berry , on the other hand, is still recognised as a genius, and even had an obituary from Batak Obama after his death. He was a serial sex offender, doing time for it in the Sixties, and being found guilty again in 1989.

Is our, as a society, more forgiving stance to Berry, than Glitter and King due to his music being far better, and theirs being pants?
If so, then I imagine we will still be hearing Jackson’s music for a long time.

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Triggaaar said:

I don't know where you're quoting from, but it probably means his dad took him to his dental practice. Given that his dad was a dentist, it's unlikely he's going to go somewhere else and say 'excuse me sir, do you mind drugging my child for questioning'.

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