Welcoming refugees. Well done Brits!

pastafarian · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
When have I ever said that? You’re so intent to disagree with me that you can’t see when we are in agreement.
My attitude is I’d rather it didn’t happen but it does. And it will never be stopped. Given that, I don’t believe in demonising them when they are here. We are a wealthy nation and can treat people with respect and dignity while we have the duty of care if we choose to.
Yes, they’re safe here while being processed. Does that mean they should endure conditions deemed unfit for humans?

I have never seen you say that those already in France or other safe countries, who are seeking asylum, should apply for asylum there instead of attempting to make an illegal entry using people smugglers into the UK via the channel. So until you do i dont think we are in agreement.

Pretty pink fairy · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
It might seem very necessary to a man looking after his family .I’ve explained why and how it can happen. Can you explain why you think they do it?

And they’re not entering illegally.

So it's fine to turn up in a dinghy or in the back of a lorry without any passport or documentation no idea who they are, give your head a wobble man !
Regards
DF

Randy McNob · May 4, 2021

pastafarian said:
I have never seen you say that those already in France or other safe countries, who are seeking asylum, should apply for asylum there instead of attempting to make an illegal entry using people smugglers into the UK via the channel. So until you do i dont think we are in agreement.

still using the first safe country point despite voting to leave the Dublin convention in 2016. Perhaps the reason it is rife now more than ever is because you voted to not be able to send them back?

Getting it done....

pastafarian · May 4, 2021

Randy McNob said:
still using the first safe country point despite voting to leave the Dublin convention in 2016. Perhaps the reason it is rife now more than ever is because you voted to not be able to send them back?

Getting it done....

i have not mentioned the FIRST safe country as per Dublin. I very much doubt France is the first safe country that has been entered by those at Calais who have a choice of claiming asylum in France or attempting to enter the UK illegally using people smugglers.
Dont forget Merkel actually suspended The Dublin agreement in 2015

The Clamp · May 4, 2021

Pretty pink fairy said:
So it's fine to turn up in a dinghy or in the back of a lorry without any passport or documentation no idea who they are, give your head a wobble man !
Regards
DF

Again, not something I have ever claimed.

The Clamp · May 4, 2021

pastafarian said:
I have never seen you say that those already in France or other safe countries, who are seeking asylum, should apply for asylum there instead of attempting to make an illegal entry using people smugglers into the UK via the channel. So until you do i dont think we are in agreement.

I understand the compulsion to make one’s way to the U.K. but I can’t endorse the methods traffickers employ.

Chicken Run · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
I understand the compulsion to make one’s way to the U.K. but I can’t endorse the methods traffickers employ.

Genuine question, seeing as you understand, what is their compulsion to come to the UK?

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The Clamp · May 4, 2021

Chicken Run said:
Genuine question, seeing as you understand, what is their compulsion to come to the UK?

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Crikey, that’s a big question and will inevitably involve the individuals own reasons but generally speaking I’d say, with the caveat that these are perceptions and not necessarily truths;

We are seen as a generous country in our attitudes to foreigners
We are seen as liberal and forward thinking
We are seen as a soft touch to claim benefits
We have a well established social care and mentoring infrastructure
They likely speak English as a second language which is a huge leg-up for finding work and generally navigating the system
We have healthcare
They may have family here
We will at the very least provide food and shelter
We provide legal representation
We currently have a government that does not readily envoke laws pertaining to eviction from the U.K.
We have strong faith based community programs
We spent hundreds of years telling the world we were the greatest country to have ever existed.
For an island, our borders are surprisingly easy to penetrate.
They can earn very good money, relatively speaking.
A lot of their cultural references will be from English speaking countries.
We have a very charitable inclined population.
We are largely tolerant of other cultures and races.

That’s off the top of my head. There are probably many more reasons people risk their lives to get here. All of which are perfectly understandable, whether you agree with them or not.

Randy McNob · May 4, 2021

pastafarian said:
i have not mentioned the FIRST safe country as per Dublin. I very much doubt France is the first safe country that has been entered by those at Calais who have a choice of claiming asylum in France or attempting to enter the UK illegally using people smugglers.
Dont forget Merkel actually suspended The Dublin agreement in 2015

in a nutshell you voted to take back control and in this example, you lost control. Thats what happens when you vote for liars and buy into their lies. Irrespective of which way you lean politically you should hold the current government to account but you can't because that would mean admitting you were wrong

Chicken Run · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
Crikey, that’s a big question and will inevitably involve the individuals own reasons but generally speaking I’d say, with the caveat that these are perceptions and not necessarily truths;

We are seen as a generous country in our attitudes to foreigners
We are seen as liberal and forward thinking
We are seen as a soft touch to claim benefits
We have a well established social care and mentoring infrastructure
They likely speak English as a second language which is a huge leg-up for finding work and generally navigating the system
We have healthcare
They may have family here
We will at the very least provide food and shelter
We provide legal representation
We currently have a government that does not readily envoke laws pertaining to eviction from the U.K.
We have strong faith based community programs
We spent hundreds of years telling the world we were the greatest country to have ever existed.
For an island, our borders are surprisingly easy to penetrate.
They can earn very good money, relatively speaking.
A lot of their cultural references will be from English speaking countries.
We have a very charitable inclined population.
We are largely tolerant of other cultures and races.

That’s off the top of my head. There are probably many more reasons people risk their lives to get here. All of which are perfectly understandable, whether you agree with them or not.

Thank you for taking the time to type that [emoji106]

It’s shame the rest of Europe isn’t like the above

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Pretty pink fairy · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
Again, not something I have ever claimed.

No but you're endorsing it and actively encouraging it :dunce:

Regards
DF

pastafarian · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
I understand the compulsion to make one’s way to the U.K. but I can’t endorse the methods traffickers employ.

I have never seen you say that those already in France or other safe countries, who are seeking asylum, should apply for asylum there instead of attempting to make an illegal entry using people smugglers into the UK via the channel. And i still have never seen you say it.
We are definitely not in agreement.

pastafarian · May 4, 2021

Randy McNob said:
in a nutshell you voted to take back control and in this example, you lost control. Thats what happens when you vote for liars and buy into their lies. Irrespective of which way you lean politically you should hold the current government to account but you can't because that would mean admitting you were wrong

View attachment 136333

I did indeed vote to take back control of the EU immigration system as applicable to EU citizens and EU free movement. How have we lost control of that?
WTF has this example of non EU citizens attempting to enter the UK illegally by using people smugglers got to do with taking back control of EU citizen immigration and ending EU free movement of EU citizens..
You really are a bit of a weirdo.

The Clamp · May 4, 2021

Pretty pink fairy said:
No but you're endorsing it and actively encouraging it
Regards
DF

The exact opposite. You don’t really get stuff, do you.

The Clamp · May 4, 2021

pastafarian said:
I have never seen you say that those already in France or other safe countries, who are seeking asylum, should apply for asylum there instead of attempting to make an illegal entry using people smugglers into the UK via the channel. And i still have never seen you say it.
We are definitely not in agreement.

I’ll live with it.
As the law stands they have a right to seek asylum in a number of countries, including the U.K.
Opinions change nothing about that.

pastafarian · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
I’ll live with it.
As the law stands they have a right to seek asylum in a number of countries, including the U.K.
Opinions change nothing about that.

Its already been established you are fine with encouraging people to get here however they can. No need to confirm it

The Clamp · May 4, 2021

pastafarian said:
Its already been established you are fine with encouraging people to get here however they can. No need to confirm it

Ah! The ol' just make up some bull and try and end the debate because you re being shown up as ignorant, move. You do it often. No need to confirm it.

pastafarian · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
Ah! The ol' just make up some bull and try and end the debate because you re being shown up as ignorant, move. You do it often. No need to confirm it.

And still you cant bring yourself to say that those already in France or other safe countries, who are seeking asylum, should apply for asylum there instead of attempting to make an illegal entry using people smugglers into the UK via the channel

The Clamp · May 4, 2021

pastafarian said:
And still you cant bring yourself to say that those already in France or other safe countries, who are seeking asylum, should apply for asylum there instead of attempting to make an illegal entry using people smugglers into the UK via the channel

I have said it. I don’t condone people smuggling and I think people should apply for asylum where it’s safest for them.
However, I also understand why people would try to get to the U.K. and they have the right to do so, just as the U.K. has a duty of care and an obligation to them when they arrive.
There’s really not much more to add. I know you’re desperate for an argument, as always but you won’t get it from me.
Adieu.

pastafarian · May 4, 2021

The Clamp said:
I have said it. I don’t condone people smuggling and I think people should apply for asylum where it’s safest for them.
However, I also understand why people would try to get to the U.K. and they have the right to do so, just as the U.K. has a duty of care and an obligation to them when they arrive.
There’s really not much more to add. I know you’re desperate for an argument, as always but you won’t get it from me.
Adieu.

Welcome to the club.
I knew you would come round eventually

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Welcoming refugees. Well done Brits!

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