Trump

Tyrone Biggums · Oct 9, 2019

Juan Albion said:
So he's started his first war then. Well done, Donald, that was a really smart move. Nobel Peace Prize is nailed on now.

What are those waste of space EU nations doing to pull Turkey back into line?

How many EU members border Turkey?

EU should be coming straight out and threatening Turkey with heavy sanctions if it goes down that path before anything major happens.

Juan Albion · Oct 9, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
Trump is the biggest player on the world stage right now though.

Nobody is bigger or has as much power behind them, especially in military terms.

What examples have we seen to show us he's more than happy to cede his ego and take a big step back and have someone else tell him what to do and he's done it.

For Trump to be Putin's puppet it would take some highly elaborate and highly secretive plan to make it work undetected.

Do you really think you could rely on Trump to pull off such a heist given how apparently stupid he is according to the same people who think this is what's happening?

Pie in the sky stuff as was found out by the laughable russia-gate farce.

I think you are getting desperate. Personally, I don't think he's capable of being anyone's puppet, but they sure know how to play him. Erdogan just played him like a banjo.

Juan Albion · Oct 9, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
What are those waste of space EU nations doing to pull Turkey back into line?

How many EU members border Turkey?

EU should be coming straight out and threatening Turkey with heavy sanctions if it goes down that path before anything major happens.

Maybe they would have done if they'd been given much warning by the pumpkin in the White House. But you are in a dreamworld if you think ANY sanctions was going to stop Erdogan doing this once the Americans had gone. A few dozen US troops were maintaining peace and allowing the fight against ISIS to go on, with very little risk to themselves. Now ISIS can regroup, all thanks to the tosspot in orange making up policy as he goes along.

Swansman · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
Trump is the biggest player on the world stage right now though.

Nobody is bigger or has as much power behind them, especially in military terms.

No way. Business will always stand above politics. There is no way Trump got more power than the big banks, the big weapon producers or the organisations they control. In terms of politicians, Xi arguably got the same amount of international power (especially since there is very little conflict of interets between business and politics in China compared to the US), but its hard to tell since China is secretive about its plans, weaponry and ambitions.

Tyrone Biggums said:
For Trump to be Putin's puppet it would take some highly elaborate and highly secretive plan to make it work undetected.

I pretty much agree with you here. While such a "highly elaborate and highly secretive plan" is possible - the biggest secrets are often ridicilous enough not to be taken seriously - I doubt Trump is a "puppet" of Putin. I do think that Trump and Putin have some sort of "secret" agreement about not going to war - something Clinton was very interested in - they are still far from collaborating or conspiring.

portlock seagull · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
What are those waste of space EU nations doing to pull Turkey back into line?

How many EU members border Turkey?

EU should be coming straight out and threatening Turkey with heavy sanctions if it goes down that path before anything major happens.

Don't forget it’s NATO, not the EU, that has an army. It’s also defence not attack I.e. if a member is attacked, everyone else leaps to its defence as one or so the theory goes. I have little faith that would happen, alliances tend to unravel when killing’s required

gripper stebson · Oct 10, 2019

This is real.

He just suggested the US should not help the Kurds because 'they didn't help us in Normandy'.

Wow.

Tyrone Biggums · Oct 10, 2019

Juan Albion said:
Maybe they would have done if they'd been given much warning by the pumpkin in the White House. But you are in a dreamworld if you think ANY sanctions was going to stop Erdogan doing this once the Americans had gone. A few dozen US troops were maintaining peace and allowing the fight against ISIS to go on, with very little risk to themselves. Now ISIS can regroup, all thanks to the tosspot in orange making up policy as he goes along.

This conflict has been going since 2014, plenty of time for a contingency plan to have been drawn up. To say oh wow this is out of nowhere we had no time to come up with a plan is just rubbish.

If it's only a few dozen US troops maintaining the peace it shouldn't be too much of a task to have EU soldiers simply replace them as they move out.

Why aren't they there already is a fair question is it not?

Tyrone Biggums · Oct 10, 2019

portlock seagull said:
Don't forget it’s NATO, not the EU, that has an army. It’s also defence not attack I.e. if a member is attacked, everyone else leaps to its defence as one or so the theory goes. I have little faith that would happen, alliances tend to unravel when killing’s required

And NATO has Turkey as part of it's standing members.

All it takes is for a group of those member states to place peace keepers between Turkey and the Kurds for it to be brought to the NATO council.

Juan Albion · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
This conflict has been going since 2014, plenty of time for a contingency plan to have been drawn up. To say oh wow this is out of nowhere we had no time to come up with a plan is just rubbish.

If it's only a few dozen US troops maintaining the peace it shouldn't be too much of a task to have EU soldiers simply replace them as they move out.

Why aren't they there already is a fair question is it not?

Nice whataboutery and whatiffery. Irrelevant, but a good effort. I guess you don't actually understand what happened and don't know what is now happening. Policy changed in two minutes via a tweet without any consultation with anyone but Erdogan. Have you noticed that Trump's own party are almost unanimous in their condemnation of him? Even Fox News ripped him a new 'Mike Dean'. You are defending the indefensible, just because you refuse to accept you were wrong about the pumpkin in the White House.

Juan Albion · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
And NATO has Turkey as part of it's standing members.

All it takes is for a group of those member states to place peace keepers between Turkey and the Kurds for it to be brought to the NATO council.

Sure, how about some Americans who were leading the coalition there already?

Tyrone Biggums · Oct 10, 2019

Juan Albion said:
Sure, how about some Americans who were leading the coalition there already?

Why is it always up to them? 29 members on that council. What are the other 28 doing?

Why not send in a heap of British peacekeepers?

Best thing for the world is for the US to not be involved in these foreign conflicts and become less of an antagonist.

Juan Albion · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
Why is it always up to them? 29 members on that council. What are the other 28 doing?

Why not send in a heap of British peacekeepers?

Best thing for the world is for the US to not be involved in these foreign conflicts and become less of an antagonist.

Because they went in there and made a deal with the Kurds to fight ISIS for them perhaps? More than 10,000 Kurds died doing it, even though the Pumpkin claims it is him who has destroyed ISIS - more lies. It's called honouring your commitments.

And yes, others might have been able to take over. So what the Pumpkin should do is talk to the other allies and tell them he wants somebody to replace them. Negotiations take place and others may or may not agree. You don't change policy in a tweet and disappear from the region almost overnight, stabbing your allies in the back. It is disgusting behaviour - unfortunately you have become immune to any disgust in what that moron does because you've invested too much in him.

Many would agree about the US not charging in as much, but again that is irrelevant to current reality.

Klaas · Oct 10, 2019

Juan Albion said:
Have you noticed that Trump's own party are almost unanimous in their condemnation of him? Even Fox News ripped him a new 'The Complete And Utter Shyster'.

It's amazing isn't it, but TB's MO is to appear confident and be slightly aggressive whether or not he has a clue what he's talking about. Most normal people just can't be bothered with him.
Perhaps he has one of those Engineering degrees he values so much. :lol:

Juan Albion · Oct 10, 2019

Trump won't be sleeping well tonight, and it won't just be the indigestion aftger eating cheeseburgers in bed:

Tyrone Biggums · Oct 10, 2019

Juan Albion said:
Because they went in there and made a deal with the Kurds to fight ISIS for them perhaps? More than 10,000 Kurds died doing it, even though the Pumpkin claims it is him who has destroyed ISIS - more lies. It's called honouring your commitments.

And yes, others might have been able to take over. So what the Pumpkin should do is talk to the other allies and tell them he wants somebody to replace them. Negotiations take place and others may or may not agree. You don't change policy in a tweet and disappear from the region almost overnight, stabbing your allies in the back. It is disgusting behaviour - unfortunately you have become immune to any disgust in what that moron does because you've invested too much in him.

Many would agree about the US not charging in as much, but again that is irrelevant to current reality.

And yes other might have been able to take over...

But they haven't.

Strange how all this disgust is directed one way.

Zero disgust for all the other complicit parties.

The Kurds have been fighting long before Trump was born. To suggest they didn't see this conflict as an opportunity to further their own interests is naive. They would have fought ISIS with or without US involvement. The US just have them a means to fight an enemy more effectively.

Tyrone Biggums · Oct 10, 2019

Juan Albion said:
Trump won't be sleeping well tonight, and it won't just be the indigestion aftger eating cheeseburgers in bed:

His approval rating is still strong, he won't be losing any sleep.

knocky1 · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
His approval rating is still strong, he won't be losing any sleep.

A dropping 40% job approval is a historical world record for the third year into a Presidential term.

portlock seagull · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
And NATO has Turkey as part of it's standing members.

All it takes is for a group of those member states to place peace keepers between Turkey and the Kurds for it to be brought to the NATO council.

Yep, weird situation where two leading members are on different sides. Still, the rest of us will I’m sure sit by and do nothing. What can you do?

Gritt23 · Oct 10, 2019

Tyrone Biggums said:
Agreed?

Turkey are already attacking and civilians are dying. So, no I don't agree with any of your justifications of Trump pulling his troops out to let Turkey do this.

In other news, what a beautiful Trump Tower that is in Istanbul.

Blue Valkyrie · Oct 10, 2019

So what links does the inner Trump mob have to Saudi Arabia, and what recordings does Turkey have of the Khashoggi murder ?

We can only wonder.

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