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[Travel] RMT v Shapps.







B

Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,250
In the field
My travel experiences might be different to others but as someone who fairly regularly travels by train from the North East to London, passenger numbers don’t seem to have returned to anything like pre-pandemic levels on that route. It is a tough situation, but in order to fund pay rises etc then it is a case I suppose of either raising fares (which are already well over-priced, IMO) or government pumping more money into the industry.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,200
Faversham
Brian Fantana said:
My travel experiences might be different to others but as someone who fairly regularly travels by train from the North East to London, passenger numbers don’t seem to have returned to anything like pre-pandemic levels on that route. It is a tough situation, but in order to fund pay rises etc then it is a case I suppose of either raising fares (which are already well over-priced, IMO) or government pumping more money into the industry.
Click to expand...

Faversham to London, back to pre covid.
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,757
Gloucester
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Faversham to London, back to pre covid.
Click to expand...

Yet thousands of commuters are now working from home, maybe only travelling to work one or two days a week. Massive loss of income to the reail industry - the economics just don't work with empty or half empty trains. Just not sustainable - some services will inevitably have to be cut or reduced.
The Unions, quite reasonably from their members' point of view, want higher wages and no job cuts. It's a very difficult - probably impossible - job to square this circle.
 


N

nordicgod

Top banana
Jul 21, 2011
889
polegate
If southern and thameslink drivers didn’t work overtime then I believe the whole service would be even worse than what it is now . Not a very good service east or west coast way at best of times
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,200
Faversham
GT49er said:
Yet thousands of commuters are now working from home, maybe only travelling to work one or two days a week. Massive loss of income to the reail industry - the economics just don't work with empty or half empty trains. Just not sustainable - some services will inevitably have to be cut or reduced.
The Unions, quite reasonably from their members' point of view, want higher wages and no job cuts. It's a very difficult - probably impossible - job to square this circle.
Click to expand...

I suspect it may have something to do with the fact there has been massive housebuilding round here over the last 3 years.
 




Madafwo

Madafwo

I'm probably being facetious.
Nov 11, 2013
1,591
Railway runs on overtime, always has, always will. It's cheaper to employ fewer staff and pay them an enhanced rate for any overtime they do than actually employ the required number.

Comes unstuck when the weather is nice and the kids are off as some people might actually want to spend time with the family. Let alone the company you work for throwing you under the bus, no wonder people don't fancy going in more than they have to.

[TWEET]1556595845788737536 [/TWEET]
 








A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,873
Deepest, darkest Sussex
So why isn’t Shapps helping broker a deal, if he and his Government genuinely care about people?
 






A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,873
Deepest, darkest Sussex
crookie said:
Because he's useless, Govt has nothing better to offer than slagging off the unions. Same as when Failing was Transport Sec

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My thinking too. Does make you wonder whether the people bringing the country to a halt actually are the unions though, doesn’t it?
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,590
Tory government vs lazy workers / unions won Thatcher 3 elections. This shit is straight from the 80s playbook. Expect more under Truss.
 




U

Uter

Well-known member
Aug 5, 2008
1,474
The land of chocolate
GT49er said:
Yet thousands of commuters are now working from home, maybe only travelling to work one or two days a week. Massive loss of income to the reail industry - the economics just don't work with empty or half empty trains. Just not sustainable - some services will inevitably have to be cut or reduced.
The Unions, quite reasonably from their members' point of view, want higher wages and no job cuts. It's a very difficult - probably impossible - job to square this circle.
Click to expand...

Passenger numbers had recovered to around 85% - 90% of immediate pre-Covid levels from the last figures I saw.

The number of people travelling by rail before the pandemic was the highest since the 1920s. They had been climbing steadily for 25 odd years. So even 85%-90% of the pre-Covid passenger total would equate to an annual ridership comfortably in the top ten of the last 100 years. It's somewhat misleading and unfair to compare current ridership to the last pre-covid year of passenger numbers.

Cutting services is a very short sighted thing to do as it doesn't really save much money at all and chokes off any bounce back in demand.

Rolling stock is still leased. Stations are still manned. The same number of signallers are needed. Track maintenance still needs to happen. And in the short term drivers / guards are still employed. All you are really saving is some overtime and track access charges (which go to Network Rail anyway thus this increases the subsidy required to keep them going). It's questionable if this saves any money even in the short term if people can't travel at times convenient to them and then choose not to travel by rail. Long term it could put people off rail for a long time.

There has been disproportionate drop in income because of fewer season tickets being sold, but rather than slashing services maybe they should try coming up with ticket products that are more attractive for people who still want to travel at peak times, but only go into the office one or two days a week.

Leisure travel is pretty much back to pre-covid levels everywhere and is exceeding it in some places. What is the justification for having a much reduced timetable at weekends? If it was viable before why isn't it viable now with the same number of passengers?

Easy to blame the TOCs but in reality it is the DfT calling the shots on timetables. They are happy for TOCs and unions to take the blame of course.
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
Brian Fantana said:
My travel experiences might be different to others but as someone who fairly regularly travels by train from the North East to London, passenger numbers don’t seem to have returned to anything like pre-pandemic levels on that route. It is a tough situation, but in order to fund pay rises etc then it is a case I suppose of either raising fares (which are already well over-priced, IMO) or government pumping more money into the industry.
Click to expand...

What about not taking so much out of the industry in dividends!!!

As has been pointed out on twitter, our privatised railways seemed to be owned by european state railways so the profit taken out subsidises their service. Absolutely stupid situation.
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
A1X said:
So why isn’t Shapps helping broker a deal, if he and his Government genuinely care about people?
Click to expand...

I might be a cynic but isn't the plot to try and let the unions loose so that will scare the floating voters. In other words, it's an election ploy, about the only one they've got.
 








B-right-on

B-right-on

Living the dream
Apr 23, 2015
6,183
Shoreham Beaaaach
Uter said:
Passenger numbers had recovered to around 85% - 90% of immediate pre-Covid levels from the last figures I saw
Click to expand...

Not sure what figures you saw but revenue and passenger numbers are way way down vs pre lockdown numbers. Like just over half.

I personally knew 3 people who used to travel every day into London by train. One found a job locally where he can work from home.
My next door neighbor used to go up every day, he now goes in 1x a fortnight.

My sister in law travelled to London every day. Now it's 1x a week.

No idea if that's typical.

Key results

A total of 990 million rail passenger journeys were made in Great Britain over the last year (1 April 2021 to 31 March 2022). This was more than double the 388 million recorded last year. It equates to 56.9% of 1,739 million journeys made two years ago.

Passenger Revenue totalled £5.9 billion this year. This was nearly three times the £2.0 billion (when using November 2021 prices) generated last year. It is equal to 54.0% of the £11.0 billion generated two years ago.

The 819 million journeys made this year using ordinary tickets equate to 71.7% of usage two years ago. By contrast, the 167 million season ticket journeys equate to 28.4% of usage two years ago
Click to expand...

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/passenger-rail-usage/
 


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