[Football] Heading Ban For Youngsters

Popeye · Jul 18, 2022

Do ya'll think this is a good idea for U12's or children in general? I certainly think so, but also do not want to ever come into effect in the men's game.Has been implemented in the USA for awhile now.

Thoughts?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62208661

rool · Jul 18, 2022

With the back up of scientific evidence someone will eventually sue for breach of duty of care.

Brok · Jul 18, 2022

Give them lighter balls to use. Simple.

Commander · Jul 18, 2022

Popeye said:
Do ya'll think this is a good idea for U12's or children in general? I certainly think so, but also do not want to ever come into effect in the men's game.Has been implemented in the USA for awhile now.

Thoughts?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62208661

No.

Currently kids can head the ball in a match, but can't practice it in training, which I think makes sense. I really struggle to see how a kid heading the ball once or twice every other week for 9 months of the year is going to cause any issues, especially with the balls they play with today. I don't see how the injuries that the guys from the England 66 World Cup squad received bares any resemblance to kids football today.

beorhthelm · Jul 18, 2022

in years to come the problem will be players dont know how to head safely, having not been taught from young age how to.

Commander · Jul 18, 2022

Brok said:
Give them lighter balls to use. Simple.

They already have, the balls are are absolutely nothing like they were in the past. And they are smaller too, under 9s play with a size 3, and I don't think it moves up to a size 5 until about under 14s.

beorhthelm said:
in years to come the problem will be players dont know how to head safely, having not been taught from young age how to.

And I would imagine high feet with studs up is going to result in a lot of injuries too.

Springal · Jul 18, 2022

I understand re footballers from 60s/70s , but they’ve seen increase in dementia risks in players from the 90s to. Risk is about 3.5x greater in professionals compared to general public

It is a bit mental innit - in anything else in day to day life you’d never ‘head’ something, but a leather football being walloped at you, somehow it’s ok?

Uh_huh_him · Jul 18, 2022

Commander said:
No.

Currently kids can head the ball in a match, but can't practice it in training, which I think makes sense. I really struggle to see how a kid heading the ball once or twice every other week for 9 months of the year is going to cause any issues, especially with the balls they play with today. I don't see how the injuries that the guys from the England 66 World Cup squad received bares any resemblance to kids football today.

I remember the first time I headed a wet old football, back in the late 70s .
Yep that should definitely be banned from kid's football.

But they are unlikely to experience anything like that.

Commander · Jul 18, 2022

Springal said:
I understand re footballers from 60s/70s , but they’ve seen increase in dementia risks in players from the 90s to.

It is a bit mental innit - in anything else in day to day life you’d never ‘head’ something, but a leather football being walloped at you, somehow it’s ok?

True, but you also wouldn't think someone sliding at you full pelt with shoes with metal studs on would be OK either.

Springal · Jul 18, 2022

Commander said:
True, but you also wouldn't think someone sliding at you full pelt with shoes with metal studs on would be OK either.

That’s a bit different - but if a book fell off a shelf, you wouldn’t let it hit you on the head

Farehamseagull · Jul 18, 2022

This does seem like a waste of time as to be honest as there are hardly any headers at all in football of that age anyway.

We certainly don't coach heading in training anymore like we did when I was a kid. The kids are taught to play out from the back when they start playing games from the age of 6 and the rules of the games are there to enforce that so there aren't that may times they have the opportunity to do it in a match anyway.

Trialling at this age seems like an empty gesture to me. If they're serious about doing something about it, they should be trialling it from at least under 18 but really, mens football.

Brok · Jul 18, 2022

Commander said:
They already have, the balls are are absolutely nothing like they were in the past. And they are smaller too, under 9s play with a size 3, and I don't think it moves up to a size 5 until about under 14s.

Have they? I didn't know that.
Back in my day they were made of buffalo skin, and weighed about 30lbs. In the rain about 40lbs.

Bry Nylon · Jul 18, 2022

Commander said:
They already have, the balls are are absolutely nothing like they were in the past. And they are smaller too, under 9s play with a size 3, and I don't think it moves up to a size 5 until about under 14s.

Yup. My son will be playing u12s this coming season and they will be using a size 4 ball (as they did last season at u11s). Like you say, heading is prohibited in training but in matches - on the very rare occasion it happens - is okay. I never see players at this age group willingly get their head underneath a goalkeeper's drop kicked clearance (although that is discouraged as a method of re-starting play anyway) - like you see in the professional game - but they will attempt to head a cross in the box - or a lofted corner kick - if anyone actually manages to get a decent delivery in.

I did hear something on the radio a few months ago about a sort of cushioned headband type device that a company had developed, specifically to 'shock absorb' a headed football and offer the player a higher degree of protection. I think it is being trialed in the US? I can see something like this becoming the norm in years to come, rather than outlawing heading.

tigertim68 · Jul 18, 2022

How many millions of men in the last 50 years were heading the ball ever since they started playing football, and how many have dementia, I suggest a very small percentage have , the football nowadays are so light compared to when I started playing 50 years ago , so I say play on and enjoy this wonderful game to the full , rather than worry what will happen 50 years time .
I have not heard a clamour about banning boxing where the aim is the smash the opponents head in .
The bottom line is when you get older , you will get heart disease, cancer , or dementia and that is life , so enjoy it to the full whilst you can

Swansman · Jul 18, 2022

Farehamseagull said:
The kids are taught to play out from the back

Relegation fodder

Garry Nelson's Left Foot · Jul 18, 2022

It's an interesting one.

My initial response is to be against it or rather, like [MENTION=9708]Farehamseagull[/MENTION] think that it's a bit pointless at that age group. In Japan there's very little heading going on at U-12 and below although there's always one or two kids who love it but even then there's not a lot of opportunity to do it as the game is overwhelmingly played on the floor.

I'm also curious about the 3.5 times likelier to get dementia stat. Is that just professionals? Not semi pros or amateurs? A vast number of people have grown up playing football as kids and carried on into adulthood. Are they part of the 3.5 times more likely stat? How about people that just played as kids but drifted out of the game in their late teens?

If it is just professionals then it suggests it's the sheer volume and power generated. If so then wouldn't it be better to deal with it within the academy systems and the pro leagues?

I genuinely don't know the answer to any of these questions so if someone who is more aware of the issue could fill me in that would be greatly appreciated.

Nobby Cybergoat · Jul 18, 2022

Farehamseagull said:
This does seem like a waste of time as to be honest as there are hardly any headers at all in football of that age anyway.

We certainly don't coach heading in training anymore like we did when I was a kid. The kids are taught to play out from the back when they start playing games from the age of 6 and the rules of the games are there to enforce that so there aren't that may times they have the opportunity to do it in a match anyway.

Trialling at this age seems like an empty gesture to me. If they're serious about doing something about it, they should be trialling it from at least under 18 but really, mens football.

I don't agree. I watch all of my lads games and there are plenty of headers there.

My personal view is that they should have different balls at that age. Non bouncing futsal type balls possibly. There are also hybrid type balls you can get with a very thin layer of leather glued onto the bladder . They don't last long and when hoofed don't go in a true line, but I use those at home with my youngsters and I think that's the best compromise

Commander · Jul 18, 2022

Bry Nylon said:
Yup. My son will be playing u12s this coming season and they will be using a size 4 ball (as they did last season at u11s). Like you say, heading is prohibited in training but in matches - on the very rare occasion it happens - is okay. I never see players at this age group willingly get their head underneath a goalkeeper's drop kicked clearance (although that is discouraged as a method of re-starting play anyway) - like you see in the professional game - but they will attempt to head a cross in the box - or a lofted corner kick - if anyone actually manages to get a decent delivery in.

I did hear something on the radio a few months ago about a sort of cushioned headband type device that a company had developed, specifically to 'shock absorb' a headed football and offer the player a higher degree of protection. I think it is being trialed in the US? I can see something like this becoming the norm in years to come, rather than outlawing heading.

My 8 year old scored 3 headers last season, all from corners. I will be particularly disappointed if they don't allow that this season!

As you say, the keepers rarely just boot it up in the air because they're told not to, the only real chance at heading it comes from a corner or a deflected shot or something when the ball bounces up in the air.

It's quite comical watching 8 year olds take corners. In our team someone normally absolutely hammers it in to the box at a perfect height for someone to just nod it in, and all the players in the box just watch it come flying past them and it goes out for a throw.

rippleman · Jul 18, 2022

Uh_huh_him said:
I remember the first time I headed a wet old football, back in the late 70s .
Yep that should definitely be banned from kid's football.

But they are unlikely to experience anything like that.

This indeed. The rain-soaked leather laces balls we had at school was like heading a medicine ball if they got wet. Totally different balls today; like heading a beach ball by comparison.

The players who have suffered dementia and other brain injuries are all from the era before the composition and manufacture of balls was changed. Has anybody seen any stats on the concussive impact of the modern ball versus the balls used 80s and earlier. I would be very susprised if there is anywhere close to the same level of risk.

Swansman · Jul 18, 2022

Garry Nelson's Left Foot said:
It's an interesting one.

My initial response is to be against it or rather, like [MENTION=9708]Farehamseagull[/MENTION] think that it's a bit pointless at that age group. In Japan there's very little heading going on at U-12 and below although there's always one or two kids who love it but even then there's not a lot of opportunity to do it as the game is overwhelmingly played on the floor.

I'm also curious about the 3.5 times likelier to get dementia stat. Is that just professionals? Not semi pros or amateurs? A vast number of people have grown up playing football as kids and carried on into adulthood. Are they part of the 3.5 times more likely stat? How about people that just played as kids but drifted out of the game in their late teens?

If it is just professionals then it suggests it's the sheer volume and power generated. If so then wouldn't it be better to deal with it within the academy systems and the pro leagues?

I genuinely don't know the answer to any of these questions so if someone who is more aware of the issue could fill me in that would be greatly appreciated.

Don't know much about the dementia part, making this a little bit OT, but it is pretty established that footballers have an 8-12x increased risk of developing ALS (or MND I think you might call it over there) so obviously there's some kind of connection between football/football lifestyle and what is happening in the brain.

Headers are perhaps the "obvious" thing to blame but I know there's a lot of other theories as well why football appears to **** with the brain more than with other people. Fertilizers, diet and general consequences of doing high-intensity exercise almost daily are some of the things that has been brought up (when it comes to MND that is, I've not read enough about football + dementia). For example most footballers eat a lot more fish than the average bloke and while that is traditionally seen as healthy, it might not be clever to overdo it with our polluted oceans in mind.

I don't really have any theory I'd put my money on... it seems reasonable that heading hard crosses and sometimes shots might not be 100% optimal for the brain but there could also be other things to it.

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