Just let the little ginger ones go, or fight for the Union? You decide........
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-61796883
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-61796883
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[Politics] Should England go it alone?
- Thread starter wellquickwoody
- Start date
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,660
Wouldn't fight for anything. If Scotland wants independence they get it.
The only stipulation would be a 60-40 vote (the sensible bar for a binding vote of such magnitude with such far reaching ramifications) and a protracted and sensible transition.
Maybe we will have learnt from BREXIT by the time the Scots go their own way.
The only stipulation would be a 60-40 vote (the sensible bar for a binding vote of such magnitude with such far reaching ramifications) and a protracted and sensible transition.
Maybe we will have learnt from BREXIT by the time the Scots go their own way.
Psychobilly freakout
HellBilly
Seems sensible, end of thread
- Thread starter
- #4
OK, fight is the wrong word maybe. Would you be disappointed if they left? Should Westminster politicians campaign against it?
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
I'd like Britain to stay together but I can understand why Scotland might want out.
However, I've often thought it would be quite funny if England went first. After all the sabre rattling(in terms of leaving) that the Scottish and to a lesser extent the Welsh have done it would be quite amusing if say on April 1st England announced it was leaving the Union and its first act as an independent country was to apply for membership of the E.U...
Knowing how these threads often end up I'd like to point out that this post isn't entirely serious so, you know, relax.
However, I've often thought it would be quite funny if England went first. After all the sabre rattling(in terms of leaving) that the Scottish and to a lesser extent the Welsh have done it would be quite amusing if say on April 1st England announced it was leaving the Union and its first act as an independent country was to apply for membership of the E.U...
Knowing how these threads often end up I'd like to point out that this post isn't entirely serious so, you know, relax.
The concept of being ‘British’ and being ‘English’ at the same time is not so simple. They were the same for me for most of my life but now, two completely different things. I kind of view Britishness as old fashioned, historical and profoundly out of date as we journey towards a new England.
I’m not scared of going it alone and believe that England would compete with any European country if run properly.
Britain is so much about the class system where a talentless entitled pig like Johnson can, through going to the right school and knowing the right people, become PM. This needs to be snaked up, the birth of a new England could do this.
I’m not scared of going it alone and believe that England would compete with any European country if run properly.
Britain is so much about the class system where a talentless entitled pig like Johnson can, through going to the right school and knowing the right people, become PM. This needs to be snaked up, the birth of a new England could do this.
nicko31
Well-known member
I'd rather be a British citizen rather become a member of a narrow English insular cult thanks....
Only if they take Wales and Yorkshire with them.
Psychobilly freakout
HellBilly
This sounds senselesssssssssssssssss…..
Almost like it’s been done before, in some kind of New England Revolution….
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
I’m torn between complete indifference and getting rid straightaway. The former wasn’t a poll option so went for the latter (but can it be quite quick please ?).
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Stuff like this drives my indifference.
nicko31
Well-known member
Exceptionalism will ultimately be our undoing...
To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of hearing the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon rambling on about their independence at every possible oppotunity, so from that perspective it would be good to see an end to it. But overall I'm pretty indifferent really, if the Scots want to go for it, all the best.
I'd rather fight to address the reasons why nationalism is so strong in Scotland:
1) They are a country unaffected by a London based media owned by foreign billionaires that drip feeds utter biased crap to English (and Welsh) citizens. Eliminate this by restricting media ownership to British citizens and also their market share.
2) They rarely get the government they elect. Perhaps if the system was fair rather than FPTP (which isn't fit for purpose). It is high time governments don't get to run the country without compromise when they only have 35-38% of the vote.
1) They are a country unaffected by a London based media owned by foreign billionaires that drip feeds utter biased crap to English (and Welsh) citizens. Eliminate this by restricting media ownership to British citizens and also their market share.
2) They rarely get the government they elect. Perhaps if the system was fair rather than FPTP (which isn't fit for purpose). It is high time governments don't get to run the country without compromise when they only have 35-38% of the vote.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
I would be very sad to see them go.
I can't see any justification for not letting them have another vote as the last one was held when we were in the EU and now we are not.
Although....
We can ask ourselves "What would Putin want ?" If, like me, you are convinced Brexit was a Putin Hybrid Warfare operation against the UK, then why give him a further victory ? There would be dancing in the corridors of the Kremlin if the UK breaks up. The UK off the UN Security Council, RumpUK much diminished.
This is so tricky.
I think, on balance, they need to have a vote. And we just need to "cross our fingers" they don't give Putin another victory.
Oh, and we cannot have a vote with someone as toxic and hated in Scotland as Johnson at the UK helm. That would distort the outcome in a bad way.
Get Rid of Johnson before any vote.
I can't see any justification for not letting them have another vote as the last one was held when we were in the EU and now we are not.
Although....
We can ask ourselves "What would Putin want ?" If, like me, you are convinced Brexit was a Putin Hybrid Warfare operation against the UK, then why give him a further victory ? There would be dancing in the corridors of the Kremlin if the UK breaks up. The UK off the UN Security Council, RumpUK much diminished.
This is so tricky.
I think, on balance, they need to have a vote. And we just need to "cross our fingers" they don't give Putin another victory.
Oh, and we cannot have a vote with someone as toxic and hated in Scotland as Johnson at the UK helm. That would distort the outcome in a bad way.
Get Rid of Johnson before any vote.
Well if they do become independent English attitudes like that will have played a major part. However you do have a point, what DO the modern English think about Scottish independence or Irish re-unification? Do we still have the mindset of Plantagenet kings with a desire to hold onto territory? Or aren't we fussed? I'm definitely in the latter camp. My only concern with Scottish independence is I don't want to be left with a rump UK. Especially I don't want to be left with Northern Ireland. It can either go with Scotland, become independent, or join with the South.
Not sure how many other English people have that view, and obviously NSC will not be a good reflection of the country overall. Anyway we'll never know because after Brexit no one is ever going to ask the English for their opinion ever again!
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Nothing like a race to be more insignificant. Some people can’t wait.
nicko31
Well-known member
I'd just say 50/50 to secure but only with all 4 nations agreeing to the arrangement
If the UK broke up, for Putin it really would be all his Christmas's at once, Brexit x 10 in terms of instabilty
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,332
simple them and us, not sure anything can address that. they have their own government with powers over everything except foreign policy, defense and borders/immigration. however every problem is blamed on "Westminster", though have not improved any social issue, with a number of their own special issues. independence wont solve anything except scratch an itch.
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