[News] American mass shootings

Neville's Breakfast · May 25, 2022

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Yes, you are quite right.

OK here is my suggestion of an explanation.

The perfect storm, (i) easy access to guns; (ii) a national culture of 'winner' mentality - (iii) if you are not a winner you are a looser; (iv) everything in America is 'the best' and (v) if you are a looser you may get crazy; (vi) OK not everone who gets crazy kills people, so it is pretty rare; (vii) but you only need one looser who is crazy with a gun to have a murder spree pretty much anywhere in the US every year.

Fuggem, I say. If you don't want your kids killed and you can't mobilise enough action against the NRA (who are not the majority) then pay the price.

Sadly, like everywhere, we all get the governments and the laws and the jeopardy we deserve. In the US there is a folksy nostalgia for frontiersmen and their guns. That is their 'God Save the dear old Queen Mum, Queen Vic and Vera Lynn'. A price they are prepared to pay.

Thoughts and prayers.

A couple of things. I think the easy access to guns is the over riding driver of these events. We have people here of a similar profile to the killers in the US so it is nothing specific to American culture. I have worked with similar individuals and whilst guns are readily available to the streetwise in Britain’s cities it is more difficult here for the type of person often involved in these events. They are not streetwise. We cannot be complacent though. The Dark Web brings criminality into homes and gun laws and being streetwise could become an irrelevance.

Springal · May 25, 2022

Think I posted this somewhere else but I was in the US a few weeks back and went to a museum , got chatting to people at the front desk, both in their 60s and happened to be former firefighters who were volunteering.

Got into chat about a few things and they couldn’t believe our police were not armed fully and those that were had tasers.

Got into Dunblane, U.K. gun laws and when I said I can’t believe how bad gun crime is (and we had come from NY. which is currently experiencing some of the highest gun crime in recent history) their opinion was basically they would never not have a gun - because until they could be 100% sure ‘the bad guys’ didn’t have them, then they needed them.

Again this seemed like a perfectly normal retired couple of people, who had spent their life in the fire service - but totally warped opinions.

On this issue - the US is ****ed and will never be fixed

BBassic · May 25, 2022

NRA solution to this will be to suggest arming teachers.

Guaranteed.

F**king murderers.

Gabbafella · May 25, 2022

The simple answer is no, they will never learn, especially all the time the NRA holds so much power.
This kind of news is so regular that it shouldn't be shocking anymore, but it is. So many young lives needlessly snuffed out because of fat cats wanting to earn money from misery.

Happy Exile · May 25, 2022

BadFish said:
Add the guns availability into the mix and you have a perfect storm of conditions for this shit. I am not suggesting for a minute that the health system is wholly or even mostly to blame but I do believe it plays a significant role.

Of the two issues one is certainly not going to change so perhaps the other may improve things a little? Possibly clutching at straws?

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

Yep. I was reading recently about the increase in nihilism and suicide among young people who feel society has nothing to offer them anymore because of systemic inequality, absence of opportunity, and a belief environmental collapse is inevitable (so "what's the point?"). In the US many young people today have a shorter life expectancy than their parents due to healthcare inequality and growing poverty. If you're in the US and aged between 15 and 24 you're 3 times more likely to die than the same age in the UK - that's not just violence, it's poverty too. Improve the health system, life-chances and opportunities, especially to young people, act radically on poverty, and it might genuinely make a difference.

It's often said where the US goes we're not far behind, even without the guns as part of the equation we've got poverty growing at an alarming rate and despite the NHS there are parts of the UK where life expectancy is decreasing - and not only is it decreasing there's a growing gap in life expectancy between the comfortable (not even rich) and the poor by as much as 20 years. It's not just America that needs to learn, we all need to learn that gross inequality and the denial of hope and aspiration creates many societal problems that need solving by those empowered to do so, and urgently.

Neville's Breakfast · May 25, 2022

Happy Exile said:
Yep. I was reading recently about the increase in nihilism and suicide among young people who feel society has nothing to offer them anymore because of systemic inequality, absence of opportunity, and a belief environmental collapse is inevitable (so "what's the point?"). In the US many young people today have a shorter life expectancy than their parents due to healthcare inequality and growing poverty. If you're in the US and aged between 15 and 24 you're 3 times more likely to die than the same age in the UK - that's not just violence, it's poverty too. Improve the health system, life-chances and opportunities, especially to young people, act radically on poverty, and it might genuinely make a difference.

It's often said where the US goes we're not far behind, even without the guns as part of the equation we've got poverty growing at an alarming rate and despite the NHS there are parts of the UK where life expectancy is decreasing - and not only is it decreasing there's a growing gap in life expectancy between the comfortable (not even rich) and the poor by as much as 20 years. It's not just America that needs to learn, we all need to learn that gross inequality and the denial of hope and aspiration creates many societal problems that need solving by those empowered to do so, and urgently.

That narrative is propagated on the internet for political reasons and the best thing we can do is counter rather than feed it. As adults we are supposed to be responsible and positive role models. In my experience that is what can be a turning point in the lives of young people.

Stat Brother · May 25, 2022

Gabbafella said:
The simple answer is no, they will never learn, especially all the time the NRA holds so much power.
This kind of news is so regular that it shouldn't be shocking anymore, but it is. So many young lives needlessly snuffed out because of fat cats wanting to earn money from misery.

Sad to say I honestly don't find it shocking in the slightest.

Nothing changed after Sandy Hook how can you be shocked now?

These deaths are the price Americans pay for fetishising a poorly worded, out of date, piece of paper.

Many of the same Americans who have allowed this to happen are currently doing their utmost to protect the rights of a fetus.
It's hard to find the logic in that.

Swansman · May 25, 2022

Neville's Breakfast said:
That narrative is propagated on the internet for political reasons and the best thing we can do is counter rather than feed it. As adults we are supposed to be responsible and positive role models. In my experience that is what can be a turning point in the lives of young people.

In what sense is it "propagated on the internet for political reasons"? There is plenty of evidence that a lot of young people today feel those things about society.

Psychobilly freakout · May 25, 2022

BBassic said:
NRA solution to this will be to suggest arming teachers.

And your surprised!!

Of course they advocate this, they know full well that will never pass law, but enforced security will.
imagine how much money that is worth, to the arms industry if every elementary, middle, secondary school, plus universities, colleges have not one but several trained members of staff, on rotators is going to be worth ?

Billions.

Land of the free my arse, America has descended into a quagmire of hate & greed, built by the few on the back of poor immigrants ever since the first Europeans set foot in that diverse beautiful country.

Such a shame they have spoilt it, for everyone.

Tyrone Biggums · May 25, 2022

Swansman said:
In what sense is it "propagated on the internet for political reasons"? There is plenty of evidence that a lot of young people today feel those things about society.

Just because you feel it doesn't make it a reality.

NB is right in that there are people who push that narrative to young people knowing they won't have any ability to actually check if it's true or not.

Bold Seagull · May 25, 2022

Neville's Breakfast said:
That narrative is propagated on the internet for political reasons and the best thing we can do is counter rather than feed it. As adults we are supposed to be responsible and positive role models. In my experience that is what can be a turning point in the lives of young people.

Is that how many of our older generation vote in terms of benefitting the young and thinking about their futures?

Swansman · May 25, 2022

Tyrone Biggums said:
Just because you feel it doesn't make it a reality.

NB is right in that there are people who push that narrative to young people knowing they won't have any ability to actually check if it's true or not.

Obviously. Similary, just because you and NB feel that society is fair and equal, there's a shitload of opportunities for everyone and the environment is doing great does not make any of those things true.

Tom Hark Preston Park · May 25, 2022

vegster said:
The BBC reporting that guns have replaced car accidents as the leading cause of death for children and teens in the US since 2020.

Biden " sickened and upset " by the latest atrocity but the pro gun lobby are dug in already. We know the solution but sadly, we will be here again and again. RIP those poor kids.

That is the most obscene stat of all

Nobby Cybergoat · May 25, 2022

The thing that always shocks me about all this is the sheer insularity of the nation.

How can they look at the constant coverage of kids being killed and not look at other nations and think. "oh, hang on we've got 12 gun deaths per 100k and the UK has 0.2 deaths per 100k and many comparable nations even lower, maybe we should do something different"

As has been said, you get the government and the laws you deserve. This is true, but it only applies to the adults. They've had plenty of chances to make their views clear at the ballot box. Those kids don't deserve this.

BadFish · May 25, 2022

Stat Brother said:
My twitter feed this morning

[tweet]1529246789290934272[/tweet]

Then 3 posts later, there's this

[tweet]1529251122661179397[/tweet]

I just can't comprehend how the answer to this can be:-

'more guns in schools'.

It is insane isn't it.

It doesn't work?? It did in Australia.

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365

WATFORD zero · May 25, 2022

Tyrone Biggums said:
Just because you feel it doesn't make it a reality.

NB is right in that there are people who push that narrative to young people knowing they won't have any ability to actually check if it's true or not.

And where exactly are they going to fact check to discover that inequality hasn't grown enormously in all advanced economies over the last 2 or 3 decades, opportunities for youngsters abound and that the environment is in fine fettle

Swansman · May 25, 2022

Nobby Cybergoat said:
The thing that always shocks me about all this is the sheer insularity of the nation.

How can they look at the constant coverage of kids being killed and not look at other nations and think. "oh, hang on we've got 12 gun deaths per 100k and the UK has 0.2 deaths per 100k and many comparable nations even lower, maybe we should do something different"

As has been said, you get the government and the laws you deserve. This is true, but it only applies to the adults. They've had plenty of chances to make their views clear at the ballot box. Those kids don't deserve this.

In some ways I agree but like many "democracies" it is basically a two party system and voting for a third party will always be considered "throwing away your vote". Plenty of people here (and definitely over there) would go berzerk if someone voted for a third party instead of Biden (or Trump) since it would "allow Trump/Biden to win".

The differences between the Democrats and Republicans are very small. Through the PR machines it will sound like it makes all the difference in the world but in reality - regardless of the ruling party - things remain the same.

Democrats and Republicans have both had plenty of chances to adress gun laws, to adress mental health issues, inequalities, education, attitudes but none of them do it - because they're both the same shit. Blue or red, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, blue or red the guns remain available for anyone, blue or red if you are struggling psychologically and need help you'll only get it if you pay up. It is a one party system pretending to be a two party system, making the power of the ballot box very limited. The US is not a democracy, it is an oligarchy and the oligarchs want this society, there is no desire for change to the better.

Weststander · May 25, 2022

If anything it encourages more gun ownership. The thick believing that an arsenal of semi automatic weapons at home will make their kids safer. Swelling the number of guns available to those with malicious intent.

RIP little angels and the innocent adult.

BBassic · May 25, 2022

10 years old.
8 years old.

Didn't even get a proper chance at life.

It's sickening.

Tyrone Biggums · May 25, 2022

Swansman said:
Obviously. Similary, just because you and NB feel that society is fair and equal, there's a shitload of opportunities for everyone and the environment is doing great does not make any of those things true.

Well the view pushed is there are no opportunities for black people in the US or the path is always blocked or there's a bias.

Then you look at how successful Nigerian Americans are and that does not match that narrative.

Nigerian Americans earn more on avg than white Americans. They have more university qualifications than the rest of the US.

So if you're telling a kid all the time they can't make it because the system is against them who is really doing the harm?

Maybe show then what success looks like when you work hard and make sacrifices instead of giving them no hope.

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[News] American mass shootings

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