[Finance] Self Assessment Fine

Arthur · Mar 23, 2022

All knowing NSC looking for some advice.

I am not nor have I ever been self employed. Pay my tax via PAYE.

This year I got a letter from HMRC saying I needed to complete a self assessment. I guess stupidly I ignored for the reasons above.

Today got a £100 penalty from them for not completing.

I've done everything they say in the letter and completed a form saying I'm no longer self employed and interestingly the two options were I'm no longer self employed and I've never been self employed so I'm guessing I'm not the only person to suffer this fate?

I've also put an appeal in against the fine. Anyone know if I'm likely to be successful?

I've tried ringing them but you just end up talking to a computer who after a long list of questions tells me they are too busy to take calls right now and hangs up!! Is there a good time to call?

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 23, 2022

It’s not just about being self-employed. If you have multiple income streams you will also need to complete one.

Psychobilly freakout · Mar 23, 2022

Scam ?

Springal · Mar 23, 2022

If you've ever earnt over £100k, or had some slightly peculiar tax arrangements (P11D or something strange with work paid expenses) or some other reason such as investments / capital gains you can be asked to fill one in. Also possible if you've paid into a private pension and need to claim back additional tax relief.

I had an employed that messed up how they reported expenses (all actual expenses, rather than a 'benefit') that triggered us having to fill in self assessments and it hasn't gone away since for me

Most years I just need to put in my earnings + tax paid from my P60 and it is OK so people shouldn't avoid doing one if asked

Arthur · Mar 23, 2022

Herr Tubthumper said:
It’s not just about being self-employed. If you have multiple income streams you will also need to complete one.

I don't, nor have I had any capital gains or anything similar.

Eric the meek · Mar 23, 2022

What was the basis for your appeal? You seem to be confusing self employed and self assessment.

You don't need to be self employed to be required to fill a SATR - a self assessment tax return.
I'm not self employed (and never have been), but I have been required to fill in a SATR for as long as I can remember.

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/who-must-send-a-tax-return

Arthur · Mar 23, 2022

Springal said:
If you've ever earnt over £100k, or had some slightly peculiar tax arrangements (P11D or something strange with work paid expenses) or some other reason such as investments / capital gains you can be asked to fill one in. Also possible if you've paid into a private pension and need to claim back additional tax relief.

I had an employed that messed up how they reported expenses (all actual expenses, rather than a 'benefit') that triggered us having to fill in self assessments and it hasn't gone away since for me

Most years I just need to put in my earnings + tax paid from my P60 and it is OK so people shouldn't avoid doing one if asked

This can be the only reason I can think I might have been asked to do one. The previous year I was made redundant and received a sizable payout. However I did also go four months without earning a bean post the aforementioned redundancy so I'm also not sure on that.

Arthur · Mar 23, 2022

Eric the meek said:
What was the basis for your appeal? You seem to be confusing self employed and self assessment.

You don't need to be self employed to be required to fill a SATR - a self assessment tax return.
I'm not self employed (and never have been), but I have been required to fill in a SATR for as long as I can remember.

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/who-must-send-a-tax-return

All my income comes from 1 job and I don't earn over £100k. Plus I've never had to do one in the past.

Wozza · Mar 23, 2022

Might be wrong, but don't they ask a percentage of employees to do one these days? To check on extra earnings from shares, properties, other jobs etc. Employed parents claiming child benefit have to do it too.

Springal · Mar 23, 2022

Arthur said:
This can be the only reason I can think I might have been asked to do one. The previous year I was made redundant and received a sizable payout. However I did also go four months without earning a bean post the aforementioned redundancy so I'm also not sure on that.

I reckon it was probably that - and they expected that would be your annual earnings moving forward

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 23, 2022

Arthur said:
All my income comes from 1 job and I don't earn over £100k. Plus I've never had to do one in the past.

They all say this though :lolol:

Eric the meek · Mar 23, 2022

Arthur said:
All my income comes from 1 job and I don't earn over £100k. Plus I've never had to do one in the past.

Within the link I gave you, there is another link:

https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return

Complete this one, and then, if you still don't agree with the result, I'm afraid you will have to steel yourself to wait on the phone to speak to them.

Weststander · Mar 23, 2022

Herr Tubthumper said:
It’s not just about being self-employed. If you have multiple income streams you will also need to complete one.

This.

Self employment is just one of many reasons for having a complete a tax return.

Any capital gains, dividend income > £2,000 .... for example?

sydney · Mar 23, 2022

Arthur said:
All knowing NSC looking for some advice.

I am not nor have I ever been self employed. Pay my tax via PAYE.

This year I got a letter from HMRC saying I needed to complete a self assessment. I guess stupidly I ignored for the reasons above.

Today got a £100 penalty from them for not completing.

I've done everything they say in the letter and completed a form saying I'm no longer self employed and interestingly the two options were I'm no longer self employed and I've never been self employed so I'm guessing I'm not the only person to suffer this fate?

I've also put an appeal in against the fine. Anyone know if I'm likely to be successful?

I've tried ringing them but you just end up talking to a computer who after a long list of questions tells me they are too busy to take calls right now and hangs up!! Is there a good time to call?

tell them you are not interested in conducting business of this nature under these circumstances and ask them to contact your accountant but don't tell them who your accountant is.

in short f@%K em

rippleman · Mar 23, 2022

Wozza said:
Might be wrong, but don't they ask a percentage of employees to do one these days? To check on extra earnings from shares, properties, other jobs etc. Employed parents claiming child benefit have to do it too.

You are correct. HMRC can require anyone to complete a Tax Return whether they fall within any of the Self Assessment categories or not.

HMRC used to issue a number of random Tax Returns each year but no evidence they have done so in recent years.

Unfortunately, HMRC has cut back on both the telephone enquiry lines and their webchat advisors. I have been in the tax game for a very long time and HMRC's service has never been this bad and the senior management doesn't really seem to care.

You probably will win the appeal against the late filing penalty if you had no reason to file a Tax Return. But don't expect a response any time soon. They are taking at least 3 months to reply to routine correspondence because they are receiving a high volume of correspondence. Could it be that people are resorting to writing because it is nigh on impossible to contact HMRC by telephone or webchat without sitting in a very slow moving queue.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 23, 2022

Arthur said:
I don't, nor have I had any capital gains or anything similar.

What about a single one off payment? I gave one lecture at another uni and got paid for it, 20 years ago. The tax people wrote to me to ask about my 'change of employment'. I wrote back to explain. They then asked me to do a full tax return. They kept this up for 5 years, then dropped it to an abridged version, then stopped altogether.

When you do the form, most of it well be 'N/A'. But be careful with your gross income. It does not include 'London weighting' and you should take that off the gross yourself. I overpaid on tax for some years because of this.

Arthur · Mar 23, 2022

Eric the meek said:
Within the link I gave you, there is another link:

https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return

Complete this one, and then, if you still don't agree with the result, I'm afraid you will have to steel yourself to wait on the phone to speak to them.

Cheers.

As expected......

You do not need to send a Self Assessment tax return
Based on your answers, you do not need to send a return for 2020 to 2021

Arthur · Mar 23, 2022

rippleman said:
You are correct. HMRC can require anyone to complete a Tax Return whether they fall within any of the Self Assessment categories or not.

HMRC used to issue a number of random Tax Returns each year but no evidence they have done so in recent years.

Unfortunately, HMRC has cut back on both the telephone enquiry lines and their webchat advisors. I have been in the tax game for a very long time and HMRC's service has never been this bad and the senior management doesn't really seem to care.

You probably will win the appeal against the late filing penalty if you had no reason to file a Tax Return. But don't expect a response any time soon. They are taking at least 3 months to reply to routine correspondence because they are receiving a high volume of correspondence. Could it be that people are resorting to writing because it is nigh on impossible to contact HMRC by telephone or webchat without sitting in a very slow moving queue.

Cheers for the response.

I couldn't believe it when the automated woman told me they were too busy goodbye and hung up.

Eric the meek · Mar 23, 2022

Arthur said:
Cheers.

As expected......

You do not need to send a Self Assessment tax return
Based on your answers, you do not need to send a return for 2020 to 2021

Excellent.

Print off the result page in case you need to refer to it in your appeal.

Arthur · Mar 23, 2022

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
What about a single one off payment? I gave one lecture at another uni and got paid for it, 20 years ago. The tax people wrote to me to ask about my 'change of employment'. I wrote back to explain. They then asked me to do a full tax return. They kept this up for 5 years, then dropped it to an abridged version, then stopped altogether.

When you do the form, most of it well be 'N/A'. But be careful with your gross income. It does not include 'London weighting' and you should take that off the gross yourself. I overpaid on tax for some years because of this.

Only thing I can think of is that redundancy payment.

I certainly won't ignore them in the future if I continue to get them.

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