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[Cricket] Azeem Rafiq

















Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,585
Farehamseagull said:
That is an oxymoron.

Predictable response from that utter disgrace of a publication.
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I've had a real problem with this whole episode. Mainly because I love the game so much.

I've always been vocal about the need to oust racism and discrimination. But I don't feel it's wrong for people to have robust opinions. Rafiq, who was clearly wronged, appears to live in a glasshouse and throws stone instead of cricket balls these days.. David Lloyd was called out for saying something that was simply an opinion. Folk may not like it, but that's his view. It really turned me against Rafiq.

If Sky cancel Lloyd, I'll be cancelling my subscription.

The Daily Mail were always going to wait for their moment. A scummy publication, but Rafiq needs to know that if you are going to publically point the finger your hands need to be clean.(E.g the anti-Jew stuff).
 
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D

Da Man Clay

T'Blades
Dec 16, 2004
16,254
Brighton Lines said:
I've had a real problem with this whole episode. Mainly because I love the game so much.

I've always been vocal about the need to oust racism and discrimination. But I don't feel it's wrong for people to have robust opinions. Rafiq, who was clearly wronged, appears to live in a glasshouse and throws stone instead of cricket balls these days.. David Lloyd was called out for saying something that was simply an opinion. Folk may not like it, but that's his view. It really turned me against Rafiq.

If Sky cancel Lloyd, I'll be cancelling my subscription.

The Daily Mail were always going to wait for their moment. A scummy publication, but Raiq needs to know that if you are going to publically point the finger your hand need to be clean.(E.g the anti-Jew stuff).
Click to expand...

What Bumble said was racist. You can have an opinion - but if it’s a racist one you don’t get to then complain when you find yourself no longer employed.

You equally don’t need to be squeaky clean to point towards clear institutional racism. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Rafiq should also pay according to his actions.
 


S

Surport Local Team

Well-known member
Jan 5, 2011
706
Farehamseagull said:
The fact that you quote and put any faith in something put out by that organisation makes any discussion with you around it pointless.
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The fact that u cannot look at all info objectively and u have clear bias, and disregard info with out fact checking says all u need to know about U!!! I suggest u research info across multiple source before making predisposed assumptions.
 




F

Farehamseagull

Solly March Fan Club
Nov 22, 2007
13,978
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
Brighton Lines said:
I've had a real problem with this whole episode. Mainly because I love the game so much.

I've always been vocal about the need to oust racism and discrimination. But I don't feel it's wrong for people to have robust opinions. Rafiq, who was clearly wronged, appears to live in a glasshouse and throws stone instead of cricket balls these days.. David Lloyd was called out for saying something that was simply an opinion. Folk may not like it, but that's his view. It really turned me against Rafiq.

If Sky cancel Lloyd, I'll be cancelling my subscription.

The Daily Mail were always going to wait for their moment. A scummy publication, but Raiq needs to know that if you are going to publically point the finger your hand need to be clean.(E.g the anti-Jew stuff).
Click to expand...

Like you I love the game and the whole epsiode has saddened but not surprised me. Rafiq has brought a huge, wider issue than just his own personal torment out into the open now and it is something that has needed addressing for years.

Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.
 


clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,325
Farehamseagull said:
That is an oxymoron.

Predictable response from that utter disgrace of a publication.
Click to expand...

Farehamseagull said:
Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.
Click to expand...

The story above has been swirling around for a few days and I'd imagine the newspaper have ticked the boxes with the lawyers.

You have to separate what he has exposed from his personal character which on evidence looks horrendous at times.

That's exactly the mistake the cricket club made.
 


F

Farehamseagull

Solly March Fan Club
Nov 22, 2007
13,978
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
Surport Local Team said:
The fact that u cannot look at all info objectively and u have clear bias, and disregard info with out fact checking says all u need to know about U!!! I suggest u research info across multiple source before making predisposed assumptions.
Click to expand...

You talk about looking at things objectively and not having bias or agenda’s but openly quote the Daily Mail?! Oh dear.
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
wait, how did he have her number to text?
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,585
Farehamseagull said:
Like you I love the game and the whole epsiode has saddened but not surprised me. Rafiq has brought a huge, wider issue than just his own personal torment out into the open now and it is something that has needed addressing for years.

Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, and normally I simply find myself supporting every effort for change. But there is something making me really defensive about all this which I wouldn't usually be. When I say defensive, I don't mean in the sense that I would justify racist attitudes, no way.

What I think I am saying is that I simply don't trust Rafiq. I'm not suggesting he hasn't been wronged, he has. But I just have a problem with him. And when the anti-Jew stuff came out I found myself feeling quite hostile towards him, which makes me really uncomfortable, because his wider point about racism is an important one.

I just wish someone else had been the one speaking out.
 


Sid in the Sharknado

Sid in the Sharknado

New member
Aug 13, 2020
1,482
Darlington
Farehamseagull said:
Like you I love the game and the whole epsiode has saddened but not surprised me. Rafiq has brought a huge, wider issue than just his own personal torment out into the open now and it is something that has needed addressing for years.

Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.
Click to expand...

There's a massive problem with this at Yorkshire in particular, but also in the game in general. Rafiq could ooze pure malevolence as far as I'm concerned, but if any actual beneficial change comes out of this I'll still thank him for it. One of the reasons people at Yorkshire gave for not dealing with the issue for so long was Rafiq's various perceived flaws, but they didn't alter the truth of the matter then and they don't now.
 




F

Farehamseagull

Solly March Fan Club
Nov 22, 2007
13,978
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
Sid in the Sharknado said:
There's a massive problem with this at Yorkshire in particular, but also in the game in general. Rafiq could ooze pure malevolence as far as I'm concerned, but if any actual beneficial change comes out of this I'll still thank him for it. One of the reasons people at Yorkshire gave for not dealing with the issue for so long was Rafiq's various perceived flaws, but they didn't alter the truth of the matter then and they don't now.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 


clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,325
Sid in the Sharknado said:
There's a massive problem with this at Yorkshire in particular, but also in the game in general. Rafiq could ooze pure malevolence as far as I'm concerned, but if any actual beneficial change comes out of this I'll still thank him for it. One of the reasons people at Yorkshire gave for not dealing with the issue for so long was Rafiq's various perceived flaws, but they didn't alter the truth of the matter then and they don't now.
Click to expand...

Not sure I'd use the phrase "thank him", but I agree with your overall point. What he has exposed is completely separate from him increasingly looking like a complete cock and racist himself in his younger years. I expect there is more to come out.
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,831
Deepest, darkest Sussex
And this is why whistleblowers never come forward.
 


DJ NOBO

DJ NOBO

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2004
6,340
Wiltshire
Brighton Lines said:
I don't disagree, and normally I simply find myself supporting every effort for change. But there is something making me really defensive about all this which I wouldn't usually be. When I say defensive, I don't mean in the sense that I would justify racist attitudes, no way.

What I think I am saying is that I simply don't trust Rafiq. I'm not suggesting he hasn't been wronged, he has. But I just have a problem with him. And when the anti-Jew stuff came out I found myself feeling quite hostile towards him, which makes me really uncomfortable, because his wider point about racism is an important one.

I just wish someone else had been the one speaking out.
Click to expand...

Rafiq has exposed the terrible problem of racism in cricket, that has needed addressing for a long time.
But, rather confusingly, we know he himself was part of that problem with his racist comments about Jews.
I’m not surprised that makes you feel uneasy.
 




jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Enemy of the People
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
10,705
A1X said:
And this is why whistleblowers never come forward.
Click to expand...

Is it though? There are personal attacks if there is a stick to beat you with. It is all well and good campaigning against racism, as long as you yourself aren't racist. Rafiq made racist comments, as no doubt did lots at YCCC. That makes the lot of them racists. Do you see what I'm saying? You can't join a vegan anti meat-eating animal rights protest on the way home from the steakhouse.

Rafiq made a very credible claim, which hopefully leads to change in the culture of that specific environment. A claim which has been undermined somewhat. If you are going to make accusations of other people, it's a pretty ****ing stupid idea to be demonstrably guilty of the exact same thing.

The ironic thing is, if he had come out at the start and said he wanted to publicly apologise for his own past racism, and talk about his own experiences at YCCC in relation to this - and how it had really opened his eyes to how harmful and distressing such abuse can be - then perhaps all of this would seem a little less hypocritical and self-righteous. Perhaps he could've discussed the fear and lack of education he had about other cultures, which made him behave that way, and then compare and contrast that to the abuse he experienced.
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,585
Da Man Clay said:
What Bumble said was racist. You can have an opinion - but if it’s a racist one you don’t get to then complain when you find yourself no longer employed.

You equally don’t need to be squeaky clean to point towards clear institutional racism. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Rafiq should also pay according to his actions.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was racist. This is the way the word gets diluted. It was a racial generalisation based on his perceived experience. He's been in the game a long time. This is part of my problem.

Around the world you'll here people say 'English are like this' or 'Indians are like that'.

My Dad was in the navy, he always made a lot of generalisations about other cultures. It's what people do. I don't have a problem with it as long as its natural context doesn't have an underbelly of hostility or deliberate discord. Bumble was forced to apologise for something he believes is correct when he should either be challenged to give examples or just left with his opinions.

I've often bemoaned the lack of Asian talent coming through the system. I don't even notice the colour of a player's skin when he plays for England. I was delighted when Hameed made his half ton against India last summer. I love seeing diverse representation at the highest levels (or any level). My opinion is clean. And I think Bumble's is too. Not to say it's right, but it certainly isn't racist.

Nothing wrong with folk saying what they see, but there is much wrong when the intent and context comes from a base of discrimination or hostility. It's all about motives.
 
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