[Cricket] Moeen Ail retires from real cricket

Cheshire Cat · Sep 27, 2021

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...m-test-cricket-and-focus-on-white-ball-format

A shame how his batting fell away as his career developed. Otherwise could have been England captain if he could have held his place.

A1X · Sep 27, 2021

His returns were really rather poor with bat and ball in test cricket for some time and frankly I was surprised he was selected this summer. He'll go down as one of England's best ever white ball players but who always struggled to match those heights at test level.

Nobby Cybergoat · Sep 27, 2021

Shame, but not quite there with either bat or ball.

Got some handy wickets and runs, but not consistently enough

keaton · Sep 27, 2021

A1X said:
His returns were really rather poor with bat and ball in test cricket for some time and frankly I was surprised he was selected this summer. He'll go down as one of England's best ever white ball players but who always struggled to match those heights at test level.

4 test centuries in a calendar year isn't too bad. For me he will rank alongside Bairstow and a few others of players who would be genuinely top class if they weren't appallingly managed

ForestRowSeagull · Sep 27, 2021

Chronically mismanaged. One of very few test players to take 5x5fers and score 5 tons. Seemed to be unfairly judged on singular performances when others got a much longer period of grace. Hoepfully he still delivers in the white ball format

vegster · Sep 27, 2021

Sad to see him retire, on his day he could be devastating with either bat or ball.... I'm still going to dread him every time he comes out to bat against Sussex in a T20.

Shropshire Seagull · Sep 27, 2021

About 10 years ago, he was playing for Wolverhampton CC and they played against my club [Wellington CC] in the Birmingham Premier League.
He wasn't particularly stand-out back then but obviously made some giant leaps forward.
Could be an international game-changer in his pomp.

Pavilionaire · Sep 27, 2021

I can understand a move like this after an Ashes series but to announce it just 10 weeks before one says everything about where we are with the long format of the game in this country.

Ali would have been a useful option for England and given us vital insurance on the batting side.

Nobby Cybergoat · Sep 27, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
I can understand a move like this after an Ashes series but to announce it just 10 weeks before one says everything about where we are with the long format of the game in this country.

Ali would have been a useful option for England and given us vital insurance on the batting side.

I guess he's one of those who has no desire to go and be apart from their family for the duration of the tour

KeegansHairPiece · Sep 27, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
Ali would have been a useful option for England and given us vital insurance on the batting side.

I think this has been one of the issues for England and an obsession in finding multi-faceted cricketers rather than just the best at their role. Moeen Ali had success as both a bowler and a batsmen but he's likely kept his place through a promise of delivering on one of those, even if not excelling in the other. Same as the wicket keeper, I think that has stifled specialists in the certain roles and prevented caps for really decent county cricketers that have deserved a bit of a run but not given one.

Just feels like England has gone back to a time when you had a core of players always picked, then around that players come and go without being given much of a run.

Don't get me wrong, decent player Moeen, but you'd rather have him as a batsmen / spinner all rounder who could support a specialist spinner than your actual spinner.

Mackenzie · Sep 27, 2021

Should prolong his career in 20/20 cricket.

Pavilionaire · Sep 27, 2021

KeegansHairPiece said:
Don't get me wrong, decent player Moeen, but you'd rather have him as a batsmen / spinner all rounder who could support a specialist spinner than your actual spinner.

1. I agree with you.
2. Moeen Ali is England's third highest test wicket-taking spinner, behind Underwood and Swann. What does THAT say about the quality of spinners we have produced for the test side? For a guy to take that many wickets and still never have looked like a proper world class test spinner is saying something.

Nobby Cybergoat · Sep 27, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
1. I agree with you.
2. Moeen Ali is England's third highest test wicket-taking spinner, behind Underwood and Swann. What does THAT say about the quality of spinners we have produced for the test side? For a guy to take that many wickets and still never have looked like a proper world class test spinner is saying something.

He's always offered wickets, no doubt about that. It's the control that has meant he's never been considered a top class spinner

KeegansHairPiece · Sep 27, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
1. I agree with you.
2. Moeen Ali is England's third highest test wicket-taking spinner, behind Underwood and Swann. What does THAT say about the quality of spinners we have produced for the test side? For a guy to take that many wickets and still never have looked like a proper world class test spinner is saying something.

He did take wickets, but where he was often needed most, his economy was pretty poor at 3.61. Even Monty had some control at 2.78, Tuffers 2.42, Giles 2.86. He was never going to be considered world class if he couldn't hold up an end even if he could take wickets, often when things were going well for England.

He did amazingly well to extract the best from the ability he had. You are right he took wickets and he did score runs occasionally. I certainly don't begrudge him his test caps, I just think England can go too far without giving specialist options a try and keep more players involved in the side for longer. The wicket keeper is also immensely frustrating that 2 players, neither of whom are excellent glovemen by any stretch keep getting the gloves through average batting results. We seem very reluctant to get to picking the best player for the role they are needed in.

jakarta · Sep 27, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
1. I agree with you.
2. Moeen Ali is England's third highest test wicket-taking spinner, behind Underwood and Swann. What does THAT say about the quality of spinners we have produced for the test side? For a guy to take that many wickets and still never have looked like a proper world class test spinner is saying something.

It says Will Beer should be playing Tests... :jester:

Berty23 · Sep 27, 2021

Interesting stat on Moeen, only Broad (66 @ 20.3) and Anderson (60 @ 20.9) have more 4th innings wickets in English Test victories than Moeen (55 @ 19). Next on the list is Willis (35 @ 15.8).

59 bowlers have bowled in 10 or more victorious 4th innings. In terms of wickets per innings, Moeen (3.4) is 8th behind only this rather talented bunch (Murali, Herath, Ashwin, Steyn, Kumble, Ambrose, Yasir). He was picking up these wickets whilst two of the all time fast bowlers were also picking them up at the other end.

A proper match winner when opportunity arose (as his MOTM stats show with six).

Moeen was so much more than bits and pieces, given the right circumstances he was a match winner as those MOTM awards prove.

He ends his career with a better average than tuffers and his batting and fielding is on a different level.

Templeton Peck · Sep 27, 2021

I was surprised when he was named Vice Captain in the summer as this always had an air of inevitability about it.

Our management of players for Test Cricket is abysmal.

Pevenseagull · Sep 27, 2021

ForestRowSeagull said:
Chronically mismanaged. One of very few test players to take 5x5fers and score 5 tons.

..... and at least 5 tests as an opener, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7 and #8.

Pavilionaire · Sep 28, 2021

KeegansHairPiece said:
I think this has been one of the issues for England and an obsession in finding multi-faceted cricketers rather than just the best at their role. Moeen Ali had success as both a bowler and a batsmen but he's likely kept his place through a promise of delivering on one of those, even if not excelling in the other. Same as the wicket keeper, I think that has stifled specialists in the certain roles and prevented caps for really decent county cricketers that have deserved a bit of a run but not given one.

Just feels like England has gone back to a time when you had a core of players always picked, then around that players come and go without being given much of a run.

Don't get me wrong, decent player Moeen, but you'd rather have him as a batsmen / spinner all rounder who could support a specialist spinner than your actual spinner.

Good point. Imagine how his career might have gone if he'd been around to support Graeme Swann, and got into the side ahead of lesser players like Rob Key, Ravi Bopara and Owais Shah.

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[Cricket] Moeen Ail retires from real cricket

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