[News] A lorry drivers view of driver shortage, fuel shortage and Brexit.

The Clamp · Sep 25, 2021

Hugo Rune said:
The Government also thinks we need to get a load of foreign HGV drivers back into the Country ASAP.

“Ministers are working on plans for a temporary visa scheme to make it easier for foreign lorry drivers to come to the UK.
Final details of exactly how the initiative will work are expected to be announced this weekend.
Any changes to immigration rules will be temporary, with a cap on the number of workers allowed to enter the UK.
The shortage of hauliers threatens more disruption to deliveries of petrol, food and other goods.” BBC

Indeed. Government insiders saying Boris Johnson has dithered because he knows reversing immigration rules will highlight that Brexit is not good for the U.K, limply claiming it's "because of covid". This is going to look very bad for the current government.

I am genuinely sorry to bring brexit and Johnson into it but that is a big part of our current problems. After last year's Covid Christmas one would hope the government can get a grip on the U.K's supply chains.

Raleigh Chopper · Sep 25, 2021

Grant Shapps on TV yesterday argued that there are still plenty of European drivers available in the UK because you see lots of trucks with foreign number plates.
And he is the transport secretary.

Fat Boy Fat · Sep 25, 2021

Swansman said:
Interesting to hear.

A lot of things are over-regulated and all the digital tracing makes it impossible to bend the rules in a way you see fit as an individual. Appears to be the case in a lot of professions these days.

I'm sort of guessing that's why the beaucracy Is there, to stop people bending the rules to fit their own preferences!

Fat Boy Fat · Sep 25, 2021

The Clamp said:
Indeed. Government insiders saying Boris Johnson has dithered because he knows reversing immigration rules will highlight that Brexit is not good for the U.K, limply claiming it's "because of covid". This is going to look very bad for the current government.

I am genuinely sorry to bring brexit and Johnson into it but that is a big part of our current problems. After last year's Covid Christmas one would hope the government can get a grip on the U.K's supply chains.

Now that's something I didn't think I would hear in the same sentence, Johnson and dithered...

Oh, wait! Yes I did...

The Clamp · Sep 25, 2021

Fat Boy Fat said:
Now that's something I didn't think I would hear in the same sentence, Johnson and dithered...

Oh, wait! Yes I did...

Ha! Typical Johnson MO; wait to see what the populist opinion is by which time it's all far too late to prevent the problem, then release some lame statement covering his tracks before making a tyre shredding U-Turn and claiming he's solved the problem.

You can bet your last purple Quality Street that the family Johnson will have a table groaning with treats and a large bird this Christmas. Let's hope that's not the only goose the incapable numbskull cooks this festive season.

GingerBeerMan · Sep 25, 2021

Don't blame the EU for rules. Rules are for safety. Take a look at accidents and loss of life over the last 20 years and tell me the rules don't work. We need to be blaming the government for lack of investment in infrastructure. They have fantastic overnight facilities for lorry drivers in European countries, this is not an EU problem, this is a lack of foresight problem by the previous 5 administrations.

Guy Fawkes · Sep 25, 2021

The Clamp said:
While the OP clearly knows his stuff and does the job, one of the major reasons we have a shortage is down to foreign drivers not having visas to enter the U.K. because of Brexit.

Boris Johnson is very likely to U-Turn by Monday to fix this. Something, according to a government official, they have been reticent to do as relaxing immigration laws would reveal Brexit is to blame for many of the driver shortages.

Whilst I acknowledge there are existing shortages due to factors the OP outlined, the role of Brexit in this mess cannot be downplayed. It’s a major cause of the shortages.

They were discussing this on the radio, the stat quoted was that there is a shortage of 100k drivers, we've lost 20k European drivers after Brexit, but there are 40k looking to move into the industry but can't work due to covid and the cancelation / reduction for training and testing to get those waiting into the role

Many have re-evaluated their working situation during the pandemic, some have realised that working as say, a fuel delivery tanker driver is very poorly paid for what they do and they can earn more money elsewhere and have quit and moved to work for other companies like supermarkets as drivers who pay more, or into different lines of work and left driving completely

Not that long ago the latest 'shortage' issue was beer to pubs and clubs, again deemed down to a lack of drivers and led to the usual cries of Brexit's to blame, but a combination of the the pandemic, furlough and those doing the work realising how poor they are rewarded for their efforts (for example the dray who deliver the beer barrels to the pubs having to manually move heavy barrels, and the realisation that they don't have to do this to get by, in fact they can move to another line of work, requiring far less physical work and earn more, so why stay employed as a dray?

Society has been undervaluing those that do manual work for a very long time, and rewarding those who can work a computer (when it was new then fair enough as not many could use one, but now most can) what we are now also seeing is that those in manual labour roles are moving away from manual labour as there are far better options out there and often paying more, so why stay?

It's just arrogance and a very dismissive attitude by those blaming everything on Brexit that fails to consider so many other things, such as what is happening in the jobs market and it's big upheaval caused by people reflecting on their career, their work / life balance, etc and making changes to their life to improve it and instead they'd simply like to blame one thing, something that suits their own (political) agenda

Neville's Breakfast · Sep 25, 2021

The Clamp said:
Appalling but not surprising. I knew a guy who moved his whole logistics operation from the U.K. to Eastern Europe to take advantage of this.
No wonder there is a shortage.

On The Today program the other day a transport expert says we are up to 90k drivers short in the U.K. He reckoned 40k is through people not wanting to do the job and with the average age of a truck driver being 57, many are retiring out of the profession.

20-30k through a mix of drivers leaving because they don’t want to work in the U.K. now we have left the EU and returning home because of Covid. And because of test delays due to covid.

And 20k unable to work in the U.K. because of post-Brexit visa requirements.

That’s one heck of a shortfall. Whatever the reasons.

Sounds like there are fundamental problems in the road haulage industry and cheap foreign labour has played a part in preserving that status quo. As mentioned, it is a sticking plaster, more of the same.

The Clamp · Sep 25, 2021

Guy Fawkes said:
They were discussing this on the radio, the stat quoted was that there is a shortage of 100k drivers, we've lost 20k European drivers after Brexit, but there are 40k looking to move into the industry but can't work due to covid and the cancelation / reduction for training and testing to get those waiting into the role

Many have re-evaluated their working situation during the pandemic, some have realised that working as say, a fuel delivery tanker driver is very poorly paid for what they do and they can earn more money elsewhere and have quit and moved to work for other companies like supermarkets as drivers who pay more, or into different lines of work and left driving completely

Not that long ago the latest 'shortage' issue was beer to pubs and clubs, again deemed down to a lack of drivers and led to the usual cries of Brexit's to blame, but a combination of the the pandemic, furlough and those doing the work realising how poor they are rewarded for their efforts (for example the dray who deliver the beer barrels to the pubs having to manually move heavy barrels, and the realisation that they don't have to do this to get by, in fact they can move to another line of work, requiring far less physical work and earn more, so why stay employed as a dray?

Society has been undervaluing those that do manual work for a very long time, and rewarding those who can work a computer (when it was new then fair enough as not many could use one, but now most can) what we are now also seeing is that those in manual labour roles are moving away from manual labour as there are far better options out there and often paying more, so why stay?

It's just arrogance and a very dismissive attitude by those blaming everything on Brexit that fails to consider so many other things, such as what is happening in the jobs market and it's big upheaval caused by people reflecting on their career, their work / life balance, etc and making changes to their life to improve it and instead they'd simply like to blame one thing, something that suits their own (political) agenda

I didn’t blame it all on Brexit. I said it’s a significant factor And I agree with a lot of your post.

jakarta · Sep 25, 2021

The job just needs proper marketing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9lmCpIzhFo

wehatepalace · Sep 25, 2021

If brexit is seen as the reason for the driver shortage, why are the EU countries also seeing a huge driver shortage ? Also the US are seeing the same.
Covid is the real reason, HGV driving schools and tests just didn’t happen for a year, that’s the real reason, that and poor wages.

WATFORD zero · Sep 25, 2021

GingerBeerMan said:
Don't blame the EU for rules. Rules are for safety. Take a look at accidents and loss of life over the last 20 years and tell me the rules don't work. We need to be blaming the government for lack of investment in infrastructure. They have fantastic overnight facilities for lorry drivers in European countries, this is not an EU problem, this is a lack of foresight problem by the previous 5 administrations.

Exactly. And if we start changing the rules to make it easier to get on the road, drive longer hours, less breaks etc etc you know what will happen. It's already started with them now missing out class two tests out of desperation. This will increase fatalities on the road after decades of changes to make the roads safer :facepalm:

And if we diverge from the EU rules, HGV drivers will have to decide to be UK bound or work to two sets of rules if they want to take goods across the channel. We have been driving slowly towards this for years and and Covid and Brexit have just pushed the accelerator and disconnected the brake pipe :dunce:

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 25, 2021

pb21 said:
Now we have left the EU we are in control, why haven't these laws changed for the better? Is it because there is an ongoing commitment to adhere to them?

I’d suggest a lot of the rules are in place for a very good reason. And there’s a short fall of drivers in the EU, but nowhere near the level it is in the UK. As both follow the same rules, why is one so much worse? The shortfall is 3 times that of Germany for example, so the idea it’s down to bureaucracy is a red herring imo.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 25, 2021

wehatepalace said:
If brexit is seen as the reason for the driver shortage, why are the EU countries also seeing a huge driver shortage ? Also the US are seeing the same.
Covid is the real reason, HGV driving schools and tests just didn’t happen for a year, that’s the real reason, that and poor wages.

Many HGV drivers have retired or just left the business, rather than Covid.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 25, 2021

wehatepalace said:
If brexit is seen as the reason for the driver shortage, why are the EU countries also seeing a huge driver shortage ? Also the US are seeing the same.
Covid is the real reason, HGV driving schools and tests just didn’t happen for a year, that’s the real reason, that and poor wages.

See my post above. I also heard that the European situation is improving as we are now getting driving hours which were previously lost to the UK.

JC Footy Genius · Sep 25, 2021

The Clamp said:
Indeed. Government insiders saying Boris Johnson has dithered because he knows reversing immigration rules will highlight that Brexit is not good for the U.K, limply claiming it's "because of covid". This is going to look very bad for the current government.

I am genuinely sorry to bring brexit and Johnson into it but that is a big part of our current problems. After last year's Covid Christmas one would hope the government can get a grip on the U.K's supply chains.

Comedy gold

Since1982 · Sep 25, 2021

wehatepalace said:
If brexit is seen as the reason for the driver shortage, why are the EU countries also seeing a huge driver shortage ? Also the US are seeing the same.
Covid is the real reason, HGV driving schools and tests just didn’t happen for a year, that’s the real reason, that and poor wages.

Understand the point, but are countries in the EU also seeing empty shelves in the supermarkets? My sense is there are global issues like driver shortages the effect of which is magnified in the UK because of decisions we have taken as a result of Brexit and, in my opinion, the utter uselessness of our govt.

Guinness Boy · Sep 25, 2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58670792

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 25, 2021

The Clamp said:
After last year's Covid Christmas one would hope the government can get a grip on the U.K's supply chains.

I was thinking of channeling my inner Geldof and organizing an Xmas airlift of turkeys and other nice things we have here to try and save the UK’s Christmas. Sadly your stiflingly bureaucratic customs red-tape has thwarted any plans I have.

“Well tonight thank god it’s them, instead off you”

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 25, 2021

Guinness Boy said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58670792

I guess the inevitable call for the army to be involved isn’t far away now? :lolol:

Don’t panic!

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